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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 25 to 49 of 154. Go back in thread:
Posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:19
In reply to Re: auntiemel, i apologize, posted by flmm on August 30, 2004, at 14:49:19
> I am done posting on this issuue, so the contoversy will end! My only point is that Mr. Hoover and chemist are not the only people with the ability to use their brains, regardless of their training and proffession. There are many highly trained, highly skilled people in any proffession who are largely, incompetent. I am not implying that chemist and, or Mr. Hoover are incompetent, only providing the possibiliy based on evedince on past posts. Sorry if I offended, but other people have brains as well, some, even "laymen" brains, function quite well thank you.
It's kind of too bad that I didn't jump in faster (other than my very short post earlier) if you are indeed ceasing to reply to this thread. I'm very curious as to why someone else's posts appear to me to be so upsetting to you. Sure there are other people capable of providing the kind of information that Lar and chemist do. There are others here on Babble who do this already. I don't understand your upset. I felt a flavor of something personally upsetting in your posts. Can you talk about what's going on with you?
Warmly,
gg
Posted by flmm on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:19
In reply to I'm curious » flmm, posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 20:20:26
My basic problem is the pompous nature of chemist posts. I have read many and he routinely talks down to people, as if he is the only human capable of processing knowledge. On many posts he "slips' in drips of sarcasm and pretends to act as if he did not. He knows this! Anyways, his advice about drugs may be valid from a chemical standpoint, but clearly he lacks knowledge about the brain and people in general. That is what shrinks are for and that is why him charading as one is dangerous! His advice is of little value to me and I do not understand his godlike treatment on the board. But knock yourself out, I will stick to "True" proffessionals!
Posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:20
In reply to Re: to all... » Larry Hoover, posted by chemist on August 29, 2004, at 21:20:00
ok, i have to say something here..and if people hate me for it so be it...i can see why flmmm feels as he does. he is not the sole bad guy here. yes, he got a little emotional early on in his thread, but he didn't put anyone down. then chemist said:
> and given that other contributions to this thread have been ill- or non-informed, and hence i suspect that further investigation will not be persued with vigor > >
this comment was completely unnecessary. anyone who does not think that is insulting needs to get their head examined. if someone said that to you, wouldn't you be pissed? chemist and larry had already responded to what flmm had said. and that was fine. there was no need for this insulting "dig" on chemists's part. it was pretty subtle, so no one seemed to truly catch it and understand that this was a *put-down*. subtle put-downs are very powerful. it was offensive and unnecessarily insulting. there is where flmm became very angry, as no one seemed to notice or care...i am not saying flmm wasn't out of line after this, as he definitrly was, but i am tired of seeing all the blame rest completely on his shoulders. there were two players in this...i know we all like chemist, but he is not perfect, either....
amy
Posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:20
In reply to Re: I'm curious, posted by flmm on August 30, 2004, at 20:51:19
That's fair as your own opinion. But I don't understand the repeated posts about it. Why not use your beliefs to judge the merits of all posters for yourself? Why the need to post repeatedly on this? Can you talk about how this is helping you?
gg
Posted by flmm on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:21
In reply to Re: I'm curious, posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 21:29:08
Thank you Amy, that is what I have been trying to say all along! The message chemist sends is, if you are not a "Chemist" your opinion is of little value. His digs are subtle and numerous, all over the board. If we think he is the only one with knowledge of mood disorders ( of which there is no evedince of this), this becomes the "Chemist Board". That is why I am still here posting all this. Does this make any sense people. I will not be censored by the great "Chemist". Start your own site!
Posted by TomG on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:21
In reply to i am confused... » verne, posted by chemist on August 29, 2004, at 22:33:34
I wish I had a robot's voice coming out of my PC speakers to read the chemist's posts.
Geodon Rocks!
Posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:22
In reply to Re: i am confused..., posted by TomG on August 30, 2004, at 21:57:29
my post was not meant to perpetuate further insults in this thread....please....everybody!!! stop!
Posted by flmm on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:22
In reply to Re: i am confused..., posted by TomG on August 30, 2004, at 21:57:29
Excellent post Tom g. Now you are getting it!
Posted by flmm on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:23
In reply to Re: i am confused..., posted by flmm on August 30, 2004, at 22:04:33
I am sorry to post again but I am still laughing from the Tom G. post.
Posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:24
In reply to Re: i am confused..., posted by flmm on August 30, 2004, at 22:06:32
you know what flmmm, I'm starting to regret showing your side of the story.
Posted by verne on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:24
In reply to re, posted by alesta on August 30, 2004, at 21:28:45
Alesta,
I appreciated your thoughtful post. I don't think you inflamed anyone.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:24
In reply to Re: I'm curious, posted by gardenergirl on August 30, 2004, at 21:29:08
Woe is me...
Posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:25
In reply to Re: i am confused..., posted by alesta on August 30, 2004, at 22:04:21
Yes, I have also noticed sarcasm in Chemist's posts but I have never been bothered by it. To be fair, I guess it's because I have never felt it directed at me personally in a bad way.
You asked why people here like Chemist and I think it's because he has given many people a lot of good, helpful information. Period. No one worships him or thinks he's perfect.
I think others here, including myself, have felt the need to put their two cents in here because your response to Chemist's sarcasm was to attack him so personally and viciously (the need to get laid crap for instance). If you had dealt only with the issue at hand, you might have garnered more support early on.
Posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 7:34:25
In reply to Re: To be fair to you - flmm, posted by KaraS on August 31, 2004, at 0:01:02
kara, thank you!! i couldn't agree more with what you said! well done! you've summed up what i wanted to add. i am so glad that you made it clear how vicious flmm's response was...i wanted to make it clear to everyone that i in *no* way support flmm's views...i genuinely like chemist and find him knowledgeable and intelligent and nice (to me) and i hope if chemist is reading this he knows that...i just feel that personal attacks on others cloud the issues and do nothing to prove your point (and are harmful). flmm was looking for a fight here, practically, and if chemist had just stuck to the issues, he would have come through this in spades...i'm just trying to encourage more effective interaction...but i absolutely detest flmm's hostility and it makes me very angry...i suppose i'm trying to prevent this type of thing from happening in the future, because it *really* upsets me...chemist, i hope you know that...i definitely, in the future, am staying completely out of all arguments. this is just too much stress.
amy
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2004, at 7:51:34
In reply to Re: i am confused..., posted by TomG on August 30, 2004, at 21:57:29
> let me be sure i understand you correctly: there are certain foods and vitamins i can take that will enhance my self-esteem? i am always interested in bettering myself, and if you can provide the appropriate references/etc. that bolsters your claim, i will be in your debt...
>
> chemist> Chemist, please, you drip of sarcasm! You are far to anylitcal for your own good! It is difficult to function in the world for you I understand.
>
> flmm> I wish I had a robot's voice coming out of my PC speakers to read the chemist's posts.
>
> TomGPlease don't be sarcastic, jump to conclusions about others, or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting. For 4 weeks, 1 week, and 1 week.
Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
If you or anyone else has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing oneself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Sad Panda on August 31, 2004, at 8:22:25
In reply to Re: blocked from posting » chemist » flmm » TomG, posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2004, at 7:51:34
Dr Bob,
It appears that you have banned Chemist for 4 weeks?!? Why?
Cheers,
Panda.
> > let me be sure i understand you correctly: there are certain foods and vitamins i can take that will enhance my self-esteem? i am always interested in bettering myself, and if you can provide the appropriate references/etc. that bolsters your claim, i will be in your debt...
> >
> > chemist
>
> > Chemist, please, you drip of sarcasm! You are far to anylitcal for your own good! It is difficult to function in the world for you I understand.
> >
> > flmm
>
> > I wish I had a robot's voice coming out of my PC speakers to read the chemist's posts.
> >
> > TomG
>
> Please don't be sarcastic, jump to conclusions about others, or post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down. I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting. For 4 weeks, 1 week, and 1 week.
>
> Sharing something about your own issues and their possible role in your reaction might be an interesting exercise -- and might help others respond to you supportively.
>
> If you or anyone else has questions about this or about posting policies in general, or is interested in alternative ways of expressing oneself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 10:10:44
In reply to You're Joking I hope? » Dr. Bob, posted by Sad Panda on August 31, 2004, at 8:22:25
Let me see if I get this right. One post said:
>>>>>You are right oh great Chemist. Playing, no. Having fun yes! It will probably get me kicked off but you know what? It was worth it! You don't know squat! You should eat some food or vitamins or meds that will help you with your self esteem. You can still be the old, great chemist that you were. Maybe some people will even listen to you! Just not me, I have lost all respect for the great chemist and long for the old days, when I could trust what I heard. After your outburst, citing your outstanding credentials, I prefer to get my advice from someone with more confidence!
and the response by chemist was:
>>>>hello there, chemist here...let me be sure i understand you correctly: there are certain foods and vitamins i can take that will enhance my self-esteem? i am always interested in bettering myself, and if you can provide the appropriate references/etc. that bolsters your claim, i will be in your debt...all the best, chemist
And this gets a block??? All chemist was doing was responding to the part about food/vitamins/meds that could help increase his self esteem. Something that was mentioned in the post he was responding to - and he was much more polite, I might add.
Now, some might read a bit of sarcasm into chemist's post, but that would be subjective. If it was sarcastic, it was fairly subtle. And we know from the past that things often get read in ways that are not intended by the writer.
So, history has taught everyone here that grading on intent isn't possible. As hard as everyone argued, there were never any guidelines that would fit all cases. So, the moderator made the executive decision that it was the *words* that mattered, not the *intent*
And now the moderator has changed the rules without warning?? I am sure that this will get a rise out of all who want fairness.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:05
In reply to You're Joking I hope? - I agree!! Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 10:10:44
Yes, he even said in a later post that he was honestly interested.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040717/msgs/384539.html
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:01:26
In reply to Re: You're Joking I hope? - I agree!! Dr. Bob » AuntieMel, posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:05
How would someone ever be comfortable with that if the rules keep changing?
Or did I miss something? Was there an announcement that intent now overrules words?
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:02:26
In reply to And he's interested in deputies? » gardenergirl, posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:01:26
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 11:25:08
In reply to And he's interested in deputies? » gardenergirl, posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:01:26
Well, to clarify that, deputy guidelines are more stringent than Dr. Bob's.
Deputies are only *allowed* to intervene in an escalating situation which is defined as an uncivil post and an uncivil reply or several uncivil posts by the same poster.
So deputies are rather constrained in what they can do at best. And a deputy would certainly have no obligation to make a call like the one on Chemist.
Posted by Dinah on August 31, 2004, at 11:28:31
In reply to Re: You're Joking I hope? - I agree!! Dr. Bob » AuntieMel, posted by gardenergirl on August 31, 2004, at 10:38:05
Unless you have evidence that Chemist was trying to be sarcastic, is it fair to make that assumption? Isn't it equally likely that he was doing his best to be civil under trying circumstances with no administrative assistance, and the awkwardness of trying to stick to the precise rules of the civility guidelines merely came across as sarcasm to you?
Perhaps a please rephrase?
Posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:36:14
In reply to Re: blocked from posting » chemist » flmm » TomG, posted by Dr. Bob on August 31, 2004, at 7:51:34
<<<<<<<<< I've asked you to be civil before, so now I'm going to block you from posting. For 4 weeks, 1 week, and 1 week.
A new person that didn't know about the automatic doubling of punishment might come to the conclusion that what chemist did was 4 times more heinous than the others' actions.
Posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 12:41:29
In reply to And one more thing » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on August 31, 2004, at 11:36:14
oh, dr. bob, *please* don't block chemist for 4 weeks...i *beg* you...for my mental health...this was actually becoming a useful exercise in how to better communicate, but now will just become a source of anger. i wanted the effort i put into this thread to have a positive result for the future, not this...all i ever want to do is help people, and now, i fear, people are going to direct some of their anger at me for chemist being blocked. i am sinking into a deep depression as we speak...will you please let chemist come back??? i am not going to be able to come back here if he is blocked, and i feel like i help people here....please...this hurts me more than it does anyone else...please don't punish me...
Posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 12:55:13
In reply to dr. bob, please read :), posted by alesta on August 31, 2004, at 12:41:29
hi, again, dr. bob :),
chemist *is* the only one of the three that said he would abide when you said to be civil. :):):) and he did, while the other two didn't...i honestly think chemist is taking something positive from this, unlike the other two...please, dr. bob?:):) can he come back?:)
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