![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 27. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
Hi
I've been suffering with (what I think) is some form of Bi-polar Depression for most of my life
Getting affective treatment in the UK is a struggle
I've also been misdiagnosed with Asperghers, which is another story!One of the few Treatment Options left for me is ECT
You can get it in the UK for freeI've just read Horror Story after Horror Story
Also some of the Most intelligent people on Babble slamming it again & againSo I just want to know what people think?
Should it be avoided altogether?
Would a short course of ECT be less Damaging than a longer course?
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2013, at 9:49:03
In reply to ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
Personally after seeing it done to others never would I do it. I had a pdoc that had to have it done on a really intelligent college student. When asked why since her memory was gone and she couldn't return to school he replied. It was the only way to keep her from committing suicide. So it was a method of last resort. Are you feeling this way? Phillipa
Posted by Jeroen on July 7, 2013, at 9:51:24
In reply to ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
Brain Damage = ECT, i know someone who did he sais it drives him mad
Posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 12:32:24
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by Jeroen on July 7, 2013, at 9:51:24
Thats my main concern
Don't want any more cognitive damage than I already have
I am considering it because I do get suicidal
Heard so much negative stuff though
Posted by Hugh on July 7, 2013, at 12:42:43
In reply to ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
If you want detailed accounts of what it's like to undergo ECT, read Shock by Kitty Dukakis and Undercurrents by Martha Manning. Dukakis had a very positive experience with ECT ten years ago, and continues to get a maintenance treatment of ECT about once a month. Manning suffered some short-term memory loss, but ECT lifted her out of a severe, suicidal depression. But there are plenty of horror stories out there too.
Posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 13:02:14
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by Hugh on July 7, 2013, at 12:42:43
> If you want detailed accounts of what it's like to undergo ECT, read Shock by Kitty Dukakis and Undercurrents by Martha Manning. Dukakis had a very positive experience with ECT ten years ago, and continues to get a maintenance treatment of ECT about once a month. Manning suffered some short-term memory loss, but ECT lifted her out of a severe, suicidal depression. But there are plenty of horror stories out there too.
Thanks Hugh
Its good to hear a balanced opinionSounds like ECT is a Huge Gamble really
Other problem of course is that they are probably not using very up-to-date techniques seeing as its the the UK
I would use it as a last resort & I suppose that's what its there for
Posted by Jeroen on July 7, 2013, at 13:53:01
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 13:02:14
i don't recommend ECT, even as a last resort :-(
Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 14:01:24
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by Jeroen on July 7, 2013, at 13:53:01
I too would really recommend against ECT.
I think that there are likely combinations of treatments available which can still help you.
For example:
My regiment:
effexor
plus remeron
plus ritalin
plus omega 3
plus SAMe
plus rtmsThis is incredibly powerful.
remeron + remeron alone is very powerful
add SAMe to this and I can lower the effective
doses of both.
Linkadge
Posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 14:30:44
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 14:01:24
> I too would really recommend against ECT.
>
> I think that there are likely combinations of treatments available which can still help you.When I was thinking of Most Qualified people on Babble, you were among them Linkadge :)
I loved Mirtazapine & Venlefaxine
The problem is this doesn't do much for my anxiety, although it does help my Depression
Anxiety is a big problem, because here in the UK Benzo's are a no noI'm currently on Mirtazapine & Paroxetine & that is not working
Posted by highhatsize on July 7, 2013, at 15:22:37
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 14:30:44
My sister had ECT about twelve years ago. It significantly improved what had become a nearly catatonic depression. However, she refused to have follow-up treatments because she believed that it had permanently affected her short-term memory, both before and after the treatment. Eventually, the beneficial effects were erased and her symptoms worsened again, albeit in a different way. She eventually became paranoid. Is this better than catatonia?
I certainly think that it was worth it but it was no panacea.
Posted by Jeroen on July 7, 2013, at 15:29:18
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by highhatsize on July 7, 2013, at 15:22:37
ECT is no magic bullet pill for example, brings more problems then good things.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:02:03
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 14:01:24
I'm glad that psychotropic drugs work for you.
> plus rtms
I am curious about the rTMS.
* Where are you having this done, and is the machine being used the Neurostar?
* What are the settings that are being used - what side of the head and what frequency?
* What was the schedule of treatments initially?
* How often do you undergo maintenance treatments?
* How would you describe your current degree of improvement?
* How would you describe the contribution or rTMS to this improvement?
I know that these are quite a few questions. I would be grateful if you can answer any of them.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:15:06
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 12:32:24
> Thats my main concern
>
> Don't want any more cognitive damage than I already have
> I am considering it because I do get suicidal
> Heard so much negative stuff thoughPerhaps you can use Zyprexa as a PRN during suicidal episodes. My concern regarding the continual use of Zyprexa is weight gain and diabetes. You might be able to prevent these episodes from happening in the first place by taking lithium or an antipsychotic - at least for the time during which you are searching for an effective antidepressant treatment. I have become interested in the use of Latuda for this purpose. I am currently using Abilify.
I am looking at the new "deep TMS" treatment as a way to accelerate my recovery using the Brainsway machine.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 18:54:31
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 14:30:44
"I'm currently on Mirtazapine & Paroxetine & that is not working"
So, you're currently on mirtazapine and paroxetine. Your anxiety is a major issue and depression is also uncontrolled?
Hmm.
I personally found that paroxetine didn't help my anxiety all that much. Have you tried luvox? It is a bit more pro-cognitive. I found it better at helping me process my anxiety.
The trick (I found with remeron) is to only use it in doses that facilitate sleep. I found it useful to use it more on an as needed basis too.
Are your fears generalized or are they specific to certain themes (i.e. money, health, employment)? Do you feel anxiety more physically or mentally? Does your depression manifest as pessimism, self blame, low energy?I am of the belief that choosing the right medication has a lot to do with the kinds of thought processes, feelings and symptoms one is experiencing.
Tell me a bit more.
Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 18:57:04
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!? » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:02:03
"Where are you having this done, and is the machine being used the Neurostar?"
Its it my own home. Its a device I built. I use 15 hz on the left prefrontal cortex.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 18:58:16
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!? » BrainDamage, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 16:15:06
There are some extremely powerful alternative treatments that patients don't often try.
I find alpha lipoic acid very potent for anxiety and depression. It doesn't mix too well with standard drugs though.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 19:00:00
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!? » SLS, posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 18:57:04
> "Where are you having this done, and is the machine being used the Neurostar?"
>
> Its it my own home. Its a device I built. I use 15 hz on the left prefrontal cortex.
>
> Linkadge
Thanks.I hope you continue to feel better.
Do you have any insights into the "deep TMS" application?
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 19:47:45
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!? » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 19:00:00
>Do you have any insights into the "deep TMS" >application?
I vaguely remember reading something about it. Was this a stronger or more focused magnetic field?
Linkadge
Posted by baseball55 on July 7, 2013, at 20:07:09
In reply to ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
I have had both bilateral and unilateral ECT for severe suidicality and a suicide attempt. I didn't get any benefit at all from either and the process is horrible. Thrice a week general anathema, waking up confused and disoriented, feeling sick and tired most of the day. With bilateral ECT, it took about a month for my memory to come back. I couldn't even remember names of friends and neighbors.
I know it works for some people. Kitty Dukakis was a neighbor of mine and she still does monthly maintenance treatment and swears by it. But for me it did nothing but make me sick.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 20:31:49
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by linkadge on July 7, 2013, at 19:47:45
> > Do you have any insights into the "deep TMS" >application?
> I vaguely remember reading something about it. Was this a stronger or more focused magnetic field?
I'm not sure of all the differences, but they use what they call a "H" coil. As opposed to the Neurostar TMS machine whose flux reaches a depth of 1.5 - 3.0 cm into brain tissue, the Brainsway machine reaches depths of 5.0 - 7.0 cm. I don't know about how focused the magnetic fluxes are.
- Scott
Posted by Phil on July 8, 2013, at 9:06:10
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!? » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 7, 2013, at 20:31:49
My mom had the nastiest breakdown / depression in '81. She was in bad shape. I met my aunt at my mothers and we got her to the hospital. I don't remember the nature of her treatments but 6 sticks in my tiny brain.
I was scared because I knew nothing about mental illness. I called half a dozen psychiatrists trying to get info on ect. None took my call.
My two older brother didn't think she was the same after treatment. I didn't notice that much but I go with their observations.
Her depression would not allow time for pills to kick in.
I was in her hospital room not long after her treatment and a nurse came in. My mom is pointing at us and saying you two (basically should hook up.) I laughed but was horrified because that wasn't my mom at all.
I've had a hard life..my mothers was worse. Well, maybe a tie.
If I was in the shape that she was, yes, hook me up. Her memory after a short time was back to normal. I have the worst memory and that's before meds.
Posted by Hugh on July 8, 2013, at 18:54:57
In reply to ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
I have a friend who had ECT several years ago. He had about a half-dozen sessions in two weeks, and since then has received a maintenance session of ECT about every six weeks. The benefits he's received from ECT have been fair but not outstanding. Before ECT, he was severely depressed and had attempted suicide at least twice. Now he's moderately depressed most of the time, still takes antidepressants, and functions moderately well.
Posted by Zyprexa on July 8, 2013, at 20:51:30
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 13:02:14
I had a lot of ECT done on me in the hospital in Canada 18 years ago. I still can't remember much of the years before it, particulary 97 and 96. I had it done in 97. I remember waking up after one and thinking I had just been born. I was so stupid after the ECTs for years and years. Slowly very slowly getting memories back. People telling me things I had done which I don't have any recolection of or having only seen in dreams which I didn't think was true. So don't do it. I wish I had never had them done on me, they were forced. If I had just taken the meds they wanted me to take like zyprexa they would have never put me in the hospital and given me ECTs. So try every med you can think of. I would smoke pot before getting ECT, less memory problems. More theraputic. I don't know if you can get that or not. I say get ECT if there is some reason you need to forget everything you know for the time just before treatment.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2013, at 1:07:47
In reply to Re: ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by Hugh on July 7, 2013, at 12:42:43
> If you want detailed accounts of what it's like to undergo ECT, read Shock by Kitty Dukakis and Undercurrents by Martha Manning.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, a movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she is at least aware of it.
Thanks for letting us know about other resources,
Bob
Posted by ed_uk2010 on July 14, 2013, at 6:00:09
In reply to ECT Opinions Please-A really Bad idea?!?, posted by BrainDamage on July 7, 2013, at 8:42:42
>Would a short course of ECT be less Damaging than a longer course?
The thing is, if you have a course of ECT and improve, what do you do when the effects of ECT wear off?
Although ECT is used in the UK, it's only used in a crisis. Maintenance ECT is virtually never used.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.