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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2010, at 21:16:18
In reply to Diagnosed as Bipolar, posted by Hunk20 on October 19, 2010, at 16:45:38
Hi Hunk sorry you had a relapse so to speak but some good came out of it you now know what is wrong. I feel you should stick with your Pdocs instructions very closely to see how over a bit of time you do first. Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on October 19, 2010, at 22:59:05
In reply to Diagnosed as Bipolar, posted by Hunk20 on October 19, 2010, at 16:45:38
Hunk,
Reduced drive and creativity and especially hypersomnia are commonly reported side effects of Seroquel. I know that you experienced some psychosis, so the Seroquel may be necessary, but do you think that you might eventually be able to come off of it (especially if your mania and psychosis were triggered by one or more of your antidepressants)? I could be wrong, but I think that eliminating or reducing the Seroquel might be the key to sleeping more normally and getting some of your drive and creativity back. Of course, you don't want to forget about the benefits of the Seroquel, either.
Tomatheus
Posted by Hunk20 on October 19, 2010, at 23:03:41
In reply to Re: Diagnosed as Bipolar » Hunk20, posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2010, at 21:16:18
hmm.. can 100mg of 5htp really hurt?
i know i am somewhat depressed... i hate this feeling.
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:01:05
In reply to Re: Diagnosed as Bipolar » Hunk20, posted by Tomatheus on October 19, 2010, at 22:59:05
Higher dosages of lithium are well known to reduce creativity. It also made me feel passive, flat, and unmotivated. 300mg had no such effects on me. The problem is, in order for lithium to produce an antimanic effect, it often in necessary to use dosages between 900mg - 1200mg. Sometimes 1500mg. Traditionally, blood levels of lithium when used this way should fall between 0.6 and 1.2 mEQ/L.
Unfortunately, in an acute episode of mania, lithium often does not begin working for a week or two. That's why it is suggested to use an antipsychotic that will work immediately. After a few weeks, the antipsychotic can be slowly withdrawn.
- Scott
Posted by herpills on October 20, 2010, at 8:30:48
In reply to Diagnosed as Bipolar, posted by Hunk20 on October 19, 2010, at 16:45:38
Well, you went from being on two antidepressants to being on two mood stabilizers, so it makes a lot of sense the way you are feeling right now.
I think with bipolar there seems to be a reluctance by some doctors to use an AD because fear of mania or cycling. But the fact is depression is a big part of bipolar disorder. I think it would make more sense to add a low dose ssri to the lithium. The seroquel could be reduced or even eliminated when you get your lithium levels right.
herpills
Posted by Hunk20 on October 20, 2010, at 14:52:53
In reply to Re: Diagnosed as Bipolar » Hunk20, posted by herpills on October 20, 2010, at 8:30:48
What do you think about lithium orotate? Evtl 300mg lithium carbonate and adding lithium orotate..
I think a mild ssri is really a good idea.
Well see what the doc says.
Posted by Tomatheus on October 20, 2010, at 16:01:01
In reply to Re: Diagnosed as Bipolar » Tomatheus, posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:01:05
> Higher dosages of lithium are well known to reduce creativity. ...
Yes, I overlooked that in my last post. Thanks for explaining things.
Tomatheus
Posted by Hunk20 on October 20, 2010, at 21:49:38
In reply to Re: Diagnosed as Bipolar » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on October 20, 2010, at 16:01:01
I would say if "the middle" of classic bipolar is normal mood... my middle is dysthymia.. thats were my moodswings are at. Without medication i DO NOT get manic. All that happens is i might have normal mood for a few days and then it goes down to depression again.
Im thinking adding a mild ssri might really be a good idea. Maybe one thats good against social anxiety.
So then id be basically on lithium and i would have my "axis" lifted to normal mood. Lithium evens it out at a dysthymic level and the ssri lifts it up to normal..
sounds like a plan to me.
Also i have discovered that when i take anything that has to do with dopamine.. (nardil) (wellbutrin) i lose my mind. Im really sensitive to that stuff.
well see i will check with my psychiatrist soon
ill keep u updated
Posted by Hunk20 on October 21, 2010, at 21:51:35
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 18:53:44
hope it helps with the depression
Posted by morgan miller on October 21, 2010, at 22:42:35
In reply to adding lamotrigine, posted by Hunk20 on October 21, 2010, at 21:51:35
With the lithium and seroquel I personally think adding Lamictal is a bad idea. I would have gone for Lexapro or a good brand of St. John's Wort. Lamictal negatively impacts Long Term Potentiation. LTP is basically the long lasting communictation that takes place when two neurons are working together. It may have some involvement in long term memory and neuroplasticity. Lamictal also depletes your body of essential nutrients, mainly folate. If you take Lamictal, make sure that you take anywhere between 1.6 and 5.4 mg of l methylfolate, it may also help with your depression. I just think Lamictal should be avoided until all other options have been exhausted. I've read of too many reports of bad experiences with Lamictal and long term issues after stopping it.
I just don't see why a super low dose of something like Lexapro or a mild antidepressant like SJW could not be used given that you are taking a fairly high dose of Lithium and a potent mood stabilizing atypical anti-psychotic like Seroquel
Posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 17:16:25
In reply to Re: NARDIL (Phenelzine) 4 weeks in » Hunk20, posted by jedi on May 11, 2010, at 18:53:44
Well what i like about lamotrigine is, that it pulls people like me out of depression and is less likely to send them into a dangerous mania.
The seroquel is just for sleep really i take 50mg at nighttime.
Longterm i cannot picture myself being on a therapeutic dose of lithium carbonate.
It makes me feel to dull, i feel it blocks creativity. Short it seems to be blocking my enthusiasm for life.
Well ill check with my psychiatrist but i think i will either lower the dosage or switch to lithium orotate. All this is IF lamotrigine stabilizes me enough so these changes can be done. Im talking to my naturopathic doctor about SJW, lithium orotate etc on tuesday.
Posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 17:43:28
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by morgan miller on October 21, 2010, at 22:42:35
I also would like to add a low dose ssri and a SUPERlow dose wellbutrin.
I just feel stupid talking to my psychiatrist about all this stuff. all the meds we tried all the requests i made.
i dunno what to do.
Posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 17:47:05
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 17:43:28
also i will feel stupid to talk to him about the naturopathic options.
damn
Posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2010, at 19:44:41
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 17:47:05
Hunk so he's not open minded to trying things you suggest? Phillipa
Posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 22:53:37
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine » Hunk20, posted by Phillipa on October 22, 2010, at 19:44:41
Thats not it.. it is my feeling of not wanting to bother him. I must have learned that somewhere.. fear of expressing wishes, fear of being special
Damn.
I didnt do much research but if it where me(and it is obviously me who has to deal with it!?), id switch to lithium orotate, as it will not numb emotions and creativity. Ive read reviews of bipolar patients, that where helped by it alone.
So Lithium orotate, lamictal 100mg or maybe 75mg, low dose lexapro, super low dose wellbutrin.
Bam that would be my cocktail id like to try. A bit of stabilizers a bit of antidepressants, Serotonin vs Dopamine nicely balanced.. And on the whole defenitly alot safer than my last cocktail wich was wayy too strong and ultimately lead to my hospitalization.
Any opinions?
If i will be stable on that? Only god knows. But what i am experiencing now is stabilized misery.. i had a bit of suicidal ideation today. Sitting in my room all the time, oversleeping. I mean thats DEPRESSED and that is not really less dangerous than mania. And i dont have to tell you that it SUCKS do i?
hunk
Posted by morgan miller on October 24, 2010, at 6:38:21
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by Hunk20 on October 22, 2010, at 22:53:37
Lithium orotate and carbonate are pretty much the same thing. There is a chance you may fair better on the orotate for whatever reason. I think the half life is the same with the two, so you shouldn't have to worry about having to take orotate more often than carbonate. Still, something tells me the half life is longer with carbonate, I have no way of substantiating this. I'm assuming you were taking the regular and not the extended release version of Lithium Carbonate.
You need to talk to your doctor about your plan and ask him if he will work with you on it. I would leave out the wellbutrin for now and maybe add it in a few months if you felt like you needed more help.
Posted by Hunk20 on October 25, 2010, at 15:57:08
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by morgan miller on October 24, 2010, at 6:38:21
yeah your propably right.. messing with dopamine is a risk factor for me. I will see a naturopath on tuesday to get a second opinion..
She propably knows about lithium orotate better than the psychiatrist. And she knows other remedies for "mood disorders" + possible underlying causes.Not to say i will completly ditch psychiatry BUT i am somewhat more critical. The amount of meds they give some people is pretty sick. I will try to go as natural as possible. With psychotherapy and natural remedies.
By the way i developed a rash that is borderline to dangerous. I quit lamictal.
will give an update on whats going on
Be well my friends
Posted by Hunk20 on October 25, 2010, at 19:48:03
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by Hunk20 on October 25, 2010, at 15:57:08
and dont let psychiatry screw you
Posted by moongoo on October 26, 2010, at 5:30:40
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine, posted by morgan miller on October 21, 2010, at 22:42:35
Please tell me what is dangerous about Lamictal. I take 200 mh for depression for bipolar and it seems to help but am very very worried about hurting my body.
Posted by morgan miller on October 26, 2010, at 10:41:47
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine--Morgan Miller, posted by moongoo on October 26, 2010, at 5:30:40
> Please tell me what is dangerous about Lamictal. I take 200 mh for depression for bipolar and it seems to help but am very very worried about hurting my body.
How much is it helping? Does it help more than anything you've tried? What other medications have you tried?
I'm sure some people have taken Lamictal for years and been fine, or at least they couldn't feel any bad happening. The same goes with other psychiatric medications, including SSRIs. Some say that Prozac altered their brain for the worse permanently, while others have been on Prozac for 20 years and feel fine.
All I know is, Lamictal is one of those drugs that I often hear about people experiencing what appear to be fairly disturbing short term and long term negative effects, more so than most other medications. I said it earlier in this thread, it appears Lamictal can negatively impact something called Long Term Potentiation(LTP), something you don't want to mess with. It also depletes your body of folate, so you should be supplementing extra folate, and it should be in the form of l methylfolate(Metafolin). Metafolin may actually upregulate monoamine neurotransmitters, possibly contributing to a better antidepressant response to psychiatric treatment, especially treatments that are specifically geared toward depression. Another thing that concerns me about Lamictal is it was originally made as an anti-epileptic, not a mood stabilizer and especially not an antidepressant. Anti-epileptics are very very powerful drugs that do much more to our brains than target neurotransmitters and other things that play a role in depression(I know I know, antidepressants do other things than just target neurotransmitters). If you don't have epilepsy and your brain does not need a drug that targets the parts of your brain that may cause seizures, why would you take an ant-epileptic. Unless someone has exhausted all other possibilities and they found Lamictal is the only medication that relieves their depression without unwanted side effects, I think it's a bit extreme to be taking an ant-epileptic for depression. I know Scott takes Lamictal because he has tried everything in the toolbox and right now Lamictal is one of the few things that seems to help. This is a case where it makes sense to be on Lamictal.
Does your doctor suspect that you may be bipolar? If so, the use of Lamictal would make more sense, especially if you are suffering from bipolar depression, but not mania.
Posted by Hunk20 on October 27, 2010, at 4:16:32
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine--Morgan Miller, posted by moongoo on October 26, 2010, at 5:30:40
i can tell you that.. you develop a nasty skin rash that is potentially fatal.
The skin rash is not rare at all.. many deal with it and have to discontinue.
F*ck those psych meds seriously.
Drink some green tea and take 5htp
Posted by Conundrum on October 27, 2010, at 10:05:50
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine--Morgan Miller, posted by Hunk20 on October 27, 2010, at 4:16:32
I'm glad to becoming off the stuff. It hasn't helped and my memory is bad enough without any potential future insults from longterm lamictal use. I'm just taking a quarter of a 150mg pill now.
Posted by morgan miller on October 27, 2010, at 12:03:07
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine--Morgan Miller, posted by Hunk20 on October 27, 2010, at 4:16:32
> i can tell you that.. you develop a nasty skin rash that is potentially fatal.
>
> The skin rash is not rare at all.. many deal with it and have to discontinue.
>
> F*ck those psych meds seriously.
>
> Drink some green tea and take 5htpHa ha..5htp is ok, but I think one one of the superior brands of SJW is a better long term treatment. I'd also add fish oil, moderate to intense exercise, yoga, meditation, proper diet, turmeric, Metafolin(upregulates production of monoamines), Lysine(assists in the production of tryptophan), therapy(individual and group), and social interaction.
I will say, I think there are psychiatric medications that work very well and do little harm. For me, Zoloft was one of those.
Posted by Hunk20 on November 10, 2010, at 1:51:47
In reply to Re: adding lamotrigine--Morgan Miller, posted by morgan miller on October 27, 2010, at 12:03:07
i am now planning to take omega 3, lithium orotate (240mg or 360mg), SJW (its in the mail), 50mg 5htp, and maybe 2.5mg NADH.
and i ordered nadh since i heard it has dopamine like effects, wich are what i need. i do however have to be very careful to not get too much of this "dopamine effect" since i am sensitive to dopamine. i do need some though.
Any opinions/experiences with NADH?
i recently saw a bloodtest and it turns out my testosterone is pretty low, wich may be the reason why i am deficient in dopamine.
Ill see a new doc, whom i will inform about everything i take. Maybe he can figure out why the testosterone is low and fix it. That way maybe ill have my dopamine level where it needs to be.
Maybe this fred is more suitable for the alternative forum. Can someone transfer it?
Posted by Hunk20 on November 10, 2010, at 1:55:05
In reply to omega3, SJW, Li Orotate, NADH combo, posted by Hunk20 on November 10, 2010, at 1:51:47
anyone heard of emotional blunting with one of those? especially lithium orotate?
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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