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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 16:48:02
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion... TRIGGER » Dinah, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 16:46:57
It's not usually adaptive.
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 16:51:31
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion... TRIGGER, posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 16:22:51
It might help to think about OCPD as what people call "anal".
Also, OCD usually is extremely unpleasant to the person who has it, while OCPD is more unpleasant to the people around the person who has it.
My husband really does get upset by his OCD fears.
But the OCPD traits seem perfectly natural and normal to him, even though I try to remember that he's attempting to manage anxiety through control of his environment (and the people in it).
Posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 16:54:48
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion... TRIGGER, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 16:34:27
> I wish they'd change the name.
I wish they'd change the name of anything that precedes "PD". Schitzotypal PD was already moved to axis I by the ICD-10..as it's basically a mild form of schitzophrenia (where did they ever think it was related to one's character?!) hopefully, others will be combined too. I don't see any of them character related, they all seem like mental illness just the same.
OCDP is considered to be more 'neurotic' than 'character'-related (because of higher-level defense mechanisms used)...and can often be adaptive rather than maladaptive.
But most people with strong OCPD are constricted emotionally-where people with strong cluster B traits will be emotionally outward. Cluster B being considered the 'dramatic' personalities.
For ocd vs ocpd-i think the difference is related to OCD anxiety being more in the pre-conscious, where OCPD is conflict mostly more unconscious...where the difference lies in defense mechanisms used. Like your husband, i can always tell when i get 'ocd anxiety'...which stops when the conflict comes to my conscious.
But i'm highly anxious and have different 'types' of anxieties..it was interesting when i began to recognize which are fear-based vs conflict related...anxiety is so common!
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 17:10:12
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion.., posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 16:54:48
> For ocd vs ocpd-i think the difference is related to OCD anxiety being more in the pre-conscious, where OCPD is conflict mostly more unconscious...where the difference lies in defense mechanisms used. Like your husband, i can always tell when i get 'ocd anxiety'...which stops when the conflict comes to my conscious.
I've never really understood analytic concepts.
All I know is that OCPD is more an attempt to control one's environment to control anxiety. While OCD is intrusive thoughts and urges.
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 18:06:33
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion..., posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 16:20:56
> > It fits in well with my eating disorder and my desire to always have everthing perfect. I drive some people mad because I have really high standards for them as well. I get frustrated if they are not meeting my standards. And I don't thing anyone can meet standards because I set them so high. I can't even meet them and that is why I like control things like my eating disorder.
>
> Harsh superego and control issues are prevelant with other disorders-especially borderline, and not necessarily a symptom of an OC personality. Superego issues-the 'inner critic' seems to go along with low self-worth., however the 'disorder' is expressed. Anyway, most people have a blend of traits and its good people are reading about them. i think it could benefit anyone in the mental health system since psychiatrists often overlook this stuff.Yes, actually I have not been diagnosed with Borderline as such but I have been told that I have Borderline traits. That's why I did a DBT programme.
Posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 18:36:53
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion..., posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 18:06:33
i think most people have a mix of traits...not sure if you were aware, but since you mentioned you were in DBT because you thought you had some BPD traits, doesn't mean DBT is the only therapy that you could do...alot of people like DBT, i think it's a good program too, but I think it's more for symptom management as opposed to lasting change (i mean to change your inner state as opposed to behavior), psychodynamic therapy works better for inner state imo...which is also indicated for ocpd.
If you happen to be interested...you seem very curious with understanding yourself, you could google Otto Kernberg, Transference Focused Therapy. He's a well-known expert on Borderline and personality organization/structure. He uses borderline to broadly describe a type of personality organization rather than specific 'symptoms' associated with BPD (if my memory serves me correct, i think i just read this recently).
Posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 18:44:08
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion.., posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 17:10:12
sorry, i get a bit carried away with the PA concepts sometimes..but this turned into a pretty neat discussion, it was harder to resist :)
Posted by Phillipa on September 19, 2010, at 19:39:56
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion.., posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 18:44:08
Nurses and Doctors some say they are anal retentive and have ocd but now I know it's ocpd. And that is a good thing as they are well organized and on top of things. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 20:37:32
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion.., posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 18:44:08
It was interesting, wasn't it?
No need to apologize. It's just that my brain doesn't seem to be wired to grasp those concepts.
Posted by morgan miller on September 19, 2010, at 21:18:38
In reply to Re: BTW, posted by floatingbridge on September 13, 2010, at 4:09:03
> > > Do you know Link personally or just from the board?
> >
> > Why do you care? Don't you have better posts to make than this? GAL bro.
>
> Morgan, I don't understand this post. And what does GAL bro mean?I'm afraid to say what GAL means to me, might get booted for a week : )
I was in an irritable mood at the time, and it just seemed like a random unnecessary question.
Morgan
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 22:29:06
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion..., posted by violette on September 19, 2010, at 18:36:53
I totally agree with the Borderline traits. There are so many of them that it's not hard to have a few. I guess I got the diagnosis because I self injure and I have an eating disorder. I got the label by a psychologist when I was hospitalised. My pdoc however, thinks it's a load of sh*t.Actually I think DBT is very much designed to change your thoughts (how you see yourself etc) and behaviours. I think it is for lasting change. If I can find myself, my own identity then life would be much easier. I have no idea of who I am and why the hell I put on this earth. I think it was a mistake.
I will certainly look up Otto Kernberg. Thanks for the tip.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 19, 2010, at 23:59:15
In reply to Re: Suicidal thoughts and Prozac » linkadge, posted by Deneb on September 19, 2010, at 14:56:40
Dementia, wow, your med success is really good to hear. Thank you :)
Also glad you're loving life....that's good news to share, too.
The side effects of emotional blunting, apathy, etc, from SSRI's don't happen to everyone, and probably most people don't get them.
>
> I'm on two SSRI's, 60mg Prozac and 20mg Celexa as well as 0.75mg Risperdal and I love life! Life is fun and magical for me and I want to life to be 120 years old.
>
> There was a time I was pretty depressed and apathetic and I thought it was the SSRI that caused it. Pdoc didn't think so, but I convinced her to let me reduce my Celexa. Well, the opposite happened. I became even more depressed and apathetic! Then we decided to increase my Prozac and I love life again!
>
> SSRI's don't lessen my ability to feel love. I love Dr. Bob as much as always! ((((Dr. Bob)))) LOL
>
>
Posted by floatingbridge on September 19, 2010, at 23:59:43
In reply to Re: Suicidal thoughts and Prozac » linkadge, posted by Deneb on September 19, 2010, at 14:56:40
Deneb, wow, your med success is really good to hear. Thank you :)
Also glad you're loving life....that's good news to share, too.
The side effects of emotional blunting, apathy, etc, from SSRI's don't happen to everyone, and probably most people don't get them.
>
> I'm on two SSRI's, 60mg Prozac and 20mg Celexa as well as 0.75mg Risperdal and I love life! Life is fun and magical for me and I want to life to be 120 years old.
>
> There was a time I was pretty depressed and apathetic and I thought it was the SSRI that caused it. Pdoc didn't think so, but I convinced her to let me reduce my Celexa. Well, the opposite happened. I became even more depressed and apathetic! Then we decided to increase my Prozac and I love life again!
>
> SSRI's don't lessen my ability to feel love. I love Dr. Bob as much as always! ((((Dr. Bob)))) LOL
>
>
Posted by floatingbridge on September 20, 2010, at 0:09:04
In reply to Re: Suicidal thoughts and Prozac, posted by floatingbridge on September 19, 2010, at 23:59:43
Deneb, my spell check changed your name to 'dementia'. I only noticed the change after I hit send. Horrified, I tried to actually shut my phone off. I see that didn't work. I feel really bad and embarrassed. I'm sorry I didn't catch that typo. It's kind of a bad one. :(
(When I upgraded my operating system, well, I find this new spell check very *aggressive*. Changes my contacts' names constantly. And all sorts of words, too.)
Posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 6:59:14
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion... » violette, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 22:29:06
> why the hell I put on this earth. I think it was a mistake.
Actually, i am literally a mistake-my mother used birth control..but i was somehow born anyway. :)
I still get those feelings too...but it's getting better. Feeling 'damaged' or somehow defective is common w/those w/childhood attachment issues. Sometimes i act this out with thinking i'm more mentally 'disordered' than i really am, questioning my therapist-what about this, what about that...it takes time...and there are worse ways i could devalue myself if i wasn't aware of this.
Maxime, it sounds like you gotta lot going for you right now. I hope you can remind yourself of your uniqueness and accomplishments...your psychological insight..and as i always say-we need to have sensitive people out there in the world-it's a positive trait.
Posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 7:00:30
In reply to Deneb, I hate my new spell check!, posted by floatingbridge on September 20, 2010, at 0:09:04
that was hilarious!
Posted by Maxime on September 20, 2010, at 18:41:41
In reply to Re: Deneb, I hate my new spell check!, posted by violette on September 20, 2010, at 7:00:30
> that was hilarious!
Made me laugh! Now I have a vision of you scrambling to stop the post from posting!
I am sure Deneb will understand.
Posted by Deneb on September 20, 2010, at 19:37:26
In reply to Deneb, I hate my new spell check!, posted by floatingbridge on September 20, 2010, at 0:09:04
LOL That really made me LOL!
It's OK floatingbridge. :-) It was hilarious.
Posted by emmanuel98 on September 20, 2010, at 19:42:31
In reply to Re: Suicidal thoughts and Prozac, posted by floatingbridge on September 19, 2010, at 23:59:15
I've never had any blunting or loss of emotions due to SSRIs or SNRIs. I can't say they've helped me much either. I've also never had withdrawal problems going off them and have never had them "poop out" or work differently when I start and stop. It's just they do little for my mood when I am depressed. AAPs, on the other hand, worked like magic for me and, when I stopped and started they worked every time. I am now on parnate, which has kept me from being depressed for over a year and has no ill effects at all, except for insomnia, which I treat with ativan and trazadone.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 21, 2010, at 10:16:30
In reply to Re: Deneb, I hate my new spell check! » floatingbridge, posted by Deneb on September 20, 2010, at 19:37:26
> LOL That really made me LOL!
>
> It's OK floatingbridge. :-) It was hilarious.
>
>Thanks Deneb :)
(I suppose it was sort of funny, but mostly I just felt kinda awful....)
Posted by floatingbridge on September 21, 2010, at 10:35:54
In reply to Re: dystonic/syntonic? » floatingbridge, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2010, at 16:39:18
> For example, I used to get the intrusive fear that I ran over someone, or left my dog in the car. I knew that of course I didn't run over anyone or leave the dog in the car, but I felt compelled to check to make certain. The thoughts were intrusive. I didn't consider them to mesh well with my actual knowledge and beliefs.
>
> OCD is known as the doubting disease.There is a good essay, maybe in the NYT under children and mental illness. Father of schizophrenic girl began having similar thoughts (running over people) triggered, they thought, by ptsd related stress. He was unable to drive for a period of time. He received good treatment and resumed normal activities.
This entire thread has been quite informative.
Posted by linkadge on September 21, 2010, at 18:54:58
In reply to Re: Suicidal thoughts and Prozac » linkadge, posted by Deneb on September 19, 2010, at 14:56:40
>I'm on two SSRI's, 60mg Prozac and 20mg Celexa >as well as 0.75mg Risperdal and I love life! >Life is fun and magical for me and I want to >life to be 120 years old.
Good luck getting to 120 on those medications.
Posted by linkadge on September 21, 2010, at 18:59:32
In reply to Re: Suicidal thoughts and Prozac » Deneb, posted by twinleaf on September 19, 2010, at 16:14:43
>It's wonderful that they are doing exactly what >they are supposed to do, for you, and aren't >doing any of the negative things.
Aren't doing any negative things...that you are aware of. I have heard many complaints from deneb about vartious side effects from these medications (i.e. along the lines of twiching and tremor etc) And what do you mean by "supposed to". The drug is just some molecule that was discovered to have certain properties. Its not "supposed" to do anything.
You've got to beware of some patients love hate relationship with medications. Some adore their medications one minute and hate them the next. So, I take everything with a grain of salt around here.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 21, 2010, at 19:02:51
In reply to Re: suicidality exhaustion... TRIGGER » Dinah, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 16:37:43
>I guess you could say that OCPD traits can >sometimes be beneficial; OCD is always harmful.
I'm sorry, but I don't see as much difference between the two. Even if OCPD is ego syntonic, doesn't this indicate a more advanced stage of the illness?
Its just like alcoholism can be ego syntonic, or ego dystonic. Those for whom it is ego syntonic are just in denial. Its still alcoholism.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 21, 2010, at 19:11:07
In reply to Re: dystonic/syntonic? » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on September 21, 2010, at 10:35:54
Some people get better on medications, but not because of medications. Unfortunately, the double blind placebo controled study is the only way to guage what effect is due to placebo or natural recovery.
Some people (with cycling disorders) make their meds look so great when they are up. Never take medication advice from a hypomanic bipolar.
Linkadge
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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