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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
I have been on Seroquel (quetiapine) for 4 years, along with Lexapro. Originally, I was on 300 mg Seroquel and 30 Lexapro. Currently 70% of 25mg (tapering down)and no lexapro.
I was subsequently diagnosed as hypothyroid 3 years ago, and placed on thyroxine. My old medical records, which I consulted showed I was hypothyroid in 1996!
I began tapering my psych meds as I felt infinately better!
However, after a time, I could no longer tolerate any dose of thyroxine (any variety) or Armour.
I was recently diagnosed with partial secondary adrenal insufficency, which I researched and had tests run for as a result of intolerance to all thyroid medications.
I believe that my HPA axis and HPT axis were likely already depressed and it was an error to place me on Seroquel.
From what little I could find in abstract form on Pubmed, showed that Seroquel, even in low doses can significantly lower ACTH and cortisol.
I don't want to go on hydrocortisone for life if there is any chance that the current Seroqeul dose I am taking is interfering sufficiently with my cortisol production.
However, at a 30% taper, I vary in anxiety and fatigue throughout the day. TOTALLY variable and I can't predict when it will strike, or if I will feel well enough to do things. Sometimes I feel ok, others, paralyzed in anxiety and extreme fatigue.
I am starting to wonder if the Seroquel has caused a permanent impairment to my HPA axis and adrenal glands and god knows what else.
Has anyone else been through something similar?
Does anyone have a low cortisol situation (any form of adrenal insufficiency not caused by a antipsychotic) and is on psych meds becasue of it?
I feel that the literature is so under represented on the subject of hypoadrenia or impaired HPA axis function > I see plenty on cushings and HYPER adrenal situations. It seems that a lot of psych meds , esp the newer antipsychotics are designed specificially to low or decrease HPA axis activity.
Thanks :)
Posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2008, at 20:35:08
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
I have hasimotos thyroiditis and they can no longer regulate it. My Mother had Addison's Disease And need Acth. Phillipa
Posted by Racer on August 3, 2008, at 11:38:02
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
For various reasons -- including a horse with Cushings some years ago -- I've done a lot of reading on the subject of HPA Axis topics. You might try using "Addison's Disease" as a search term, for the hypo-adrenal information.
Other than that, I don't know what to offer. Most of what I have read related to hypercortisolemia, which is something common in those with Anorexia Nervosa -- such as myself -- and thus more relevant to my own situation. It might be worth looking at some of the studies done in the past few years about short courses of low dose dexamethasone for treatment resistant depression, because that seems to "reset" the adrenal system in some people. (In fact, many large animal vets won't use the dexamethasone suppression test for Cushings, because it will lead to worsening of the symptoms for some horses.) It's not necessarily going to be an answer, but it might lead to more information about options.
By the way, welcome to Babble! There are a lot of great people here, many of whom are quite knowledgeable about medications and strategies for treating various disorders. It's also a great place to get support as you go through the seemingly inevitable tribulations of medication trials, since so many of us have been through so many ourselves. I hope you find as much support and education here as I have over the years, and choose to stick around.
Best luck to you.
Posted by Nuala on August 3, 2008, at 12:35:55
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » Nuala, posted by Racer on August 3, 2008, at 11:38:02
Thanks Racer:
I had not heard that about the adrenal system being able to be "reset" and dexamethasone suppression. It is definately something I will pursue in my research.
The main problem here is that my adrenal glands seem to work, a little impaired maybe, according to a cortosyn stimulation test, BUT, I lack the proper ACTH signal.
Without adequate ACTH, my adrenals do not produce adequate cortisol. I may have already had this problem due to untreated hypothyroidism, but it is definately exacerbated by the Seroquel.
I am stuck in a terrible situation. I sometimes feel like a lab rat, and am frustrated since these psych drugs are given out without much reservation and without proper literature existing on their actions, side-effects, and long-term effects on the endocrine system.
Thanks for the welcome!
Posted by Maximus on August 3, 2008, at 13:48:06
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
Hi Nuala,
It is a well known fact that atypical antipsychotics, especially Seroquel and Zyprexa, lower cortisol level. So it can be a real pain with someone who has already a problem with its adrenals.
You can have a look here:
"http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852571020057CCF6852572E4004AAFBC"
Also, you might consider to lower your dose of Seroquel or switch to another AP.
Good luck! Max.
Posted by bleauberry on August 3, 2008, at 20:06:05
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
I can relate to your story bigtime. Sounds like me. It was zyprexa with me, but hey, there is no way to know if it was med related or not.
I've spent a great deal of time at other forums involving mercury chelation, adrenal, and thyroid issues. Honestly, the best way to reset the faulty HPA axis and get the adrenals healed is...Cortef, or hydrocortisone, in doses ranging from 1.25mg to 20mg per day. The physiological replacement dose is up to 30mg. The body will not heal as long as cortisol is too low. People who do this usually are not on it for life. The time period is more in the range of 1 year, sometimes 2.
The adrenals and thyroid are closely intertwined, so you'll have to keep an eye on both.
Some people do fine with Isocort or Adrenal Cortex Extract, but when those aren't enough, cortisone is the only option and is medically approved for cases like yours. The herbs, such as Siberian ginseng, Ashwaghanda, and Astragulus, and helpful also.
Mine is now in its 3rd year without much progress. Herbs and extracts made me feel worse. I tolerated hydrocortisone ok, but am waiting to see my doctor again to evaluate where to go from here. The primary benefit I noticed with daytime HC was it stopped the nightime peak which had caused racing anxiety at waking, so I know it was doing something to even things out.
Keep in mind that no matter what therapy works for you, it will take minimum 6 months to work, likely a year, and it is uncommon to feel any benefits before 1 to 3 months.
I agree with you...this is a highly under-researched syndrome/disease. I believe, as does my doctor, that it is closely tied into bipolar, anxiety, and depression, not to mention fatigue. All the focus is on the neurotransmitters. But meanwhile, the master controllers of those neuros, such as cortisol and thyroid, go ignored.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 4, 2008, at 0:12:51
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
Well, this is sort-of a bit away from the cortisol HPA stuff, but of course I think is inter-connected. I was supposed to go see an endocrinologist about this issue, but a urologist was more quickly available. (I am a male, 38.) I've been having some major problems with hormone fluctuations, basically a massive drop in testosterone. We don't know if it is med induced or what. I have gotten little if any relief from testosterone replacement gel at the highest dose, and my levels are still low. I am going on a trial of the anti-cancer med Arimidex, because it shows to greatly increase testosterone and reduce 'harmful' estrogen in men and women. (It of course is usually used with women cancer patients.)
But, I also suffer from chronic fatigue, as well as 'zippo' in the sex-drive region, and I feel almost un-human sometimes. I have had some hunches that there might be an adrenal HPA problem here as well. The thing is, what do you do about it? I read about the 'usual' cortisone treatment, but my sister is on that due to a major bowel inflammatory problem, and it has mostly gave her the usual side effects, like weight gain, black under eyes, etc. Thing is, that is a bit what I sometimes look like after my years of psych med use. So I wonder, am I sometimes getting too little cortisol and sometimes secreting too much? I've thought about going the 'natural' route, with adrenal extracts and black licorice.
So, I don't have an answer to your questions, sorry. But I just wanted to relate.
Best,
Jay
Posted by Nuala on August 4, 2008, at 19:09:22
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » Nuala, posted by Maximus on August 3, 2008, at 13:48:06
Hi Max:
Thanks for the reference to that article. While I was on that dose of sSeroqeul (300mg) at one time, I think, as my doctor explains it, that the SSRI Lexapro raised (?) cortisol, so perhaps they cancelled each other out to some extent.
But, that was a few years ago, and I am not sure if the Seroquel has adversely affected my HPA axis after all this time. As well, I am off the Lexapro, so just on 25 mg of Seroqeul at the moment.
My plan is to finish taperong off the Seroqeul. I have been on 25 mg for over a year, and have been fairly stable. Not good, stable. I think that my year on the thyroid medication helped the adrenal situaton somwehat - otherwise I would be back where I was when I was fist put on teh psych meds....Bad, bad, place.
As I mentioned in my earler post, if goimng off the seroquel does not enable me to go back on thyroid meds, and I can't find a way to deal with steroid treatment for the adrenal insufficiency, I will have little choice but to try another antipsychotic for the anxiety etc.
I have researched a few of them and found only one that rasies cortisol - Fluphenazine (Permitil, Prolixin). It seems to have some possibility of signifiacnt side -effects, but I am not sure. Are you familiar with it?
Funny you should mention that Seroquel is well-known to have this effect. Not one dr, nor one psychiatrist has understod what is going on with me and just looks blankly at me when I say Seroqeul is decreasing my HPA function and lowering my cortisol to my detriment. I am really convinced that many drs have no concept of what they are doing, and only know the pharmacy advertsied actions of medications, as pertains disease states or neurotransimitters only. Beyond this, they seem clueless.
> Hi Nuala,
>
> It is a well known fact that atypical antipsychotics, especially Seroquel and Zyprexa, lower cortisol level. So it can be a real pain with someone who has already a problem with its adrenals.
>
> You can have a look here:
>
> "http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/852571020057CCF6852572E4004AAFBC"
>
> Also, you might consider to lower your dose of Seroquel or switch to another AP.
>
> Good luck! Max.
>
>
Posted by Nuala on August 4, 2008, at 19:22:49
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » Nuala, posted by bleauberry on August 3, 2008, at 20:06:05
Thanks for your story, I am glad someone can relate.
I did go on a trial of hydrocortison 3x daily in June. At first, I had trouble tolerating the HC. My dr figured that I might be extra sensitive after being so low on cortisol for so long.
However, the in-between does crashes and especially at night after I took my Seroquel, I had incredible anxiety, at levels I had not seen since before psych treatment. One day, I decided that I just could not tolerate the effects of the HC, especially the racing heart, and surges of adrenaline feeling, so I took nothing. I had just been on for 2 weeks and was at 20 mg.
Well, that night I had a nightmare from which I would not wake and felt that "weird" feeling that I felt quite often before being put on psych meds. It was a form of psychosis. I was soooo scared. Of course, I immediately went back on the HC and it did not happen to that degree again.
My dr thinks I will need a long -acting steroid, to avoid these dips and re-visits into depression and anxitey when I am at low periods of cortisol throught the day.
Before I want to go this route, which is likely a life time committment, to being on steroids, I thought I would try to taper off the last 25 mg of Seroquel and see what hapens.Maybe I can go back on my thyroid meds if I am lucky just by cutting the Seroquel.
The literature says that Seroquel SIGNIFICANTLY lowers ACTH and cortisl, and the study I found was using doses of 25 and 50 mg!
I was too scared to go off the last 25, but I feel I have nothing to lose. My experieence with the HC has shown me that in addition to my thyorid issues (depression, anhedonia, etc), the adrenal issue has been much more prominent in my "mental illness" that I had realised. It is the main source of the panic and extreme anxiety.
Right now I am tapering off the HC as well. I just need to get a new baseline before I make any decisions. I definately need to address the encodrine situation first. But if all else fails, I will have to go back on some different psych meds.
I wanted ask you how you came to be diagnosed with adrenal issues and if your psycician sees a link between the Zyprexa? Did you have thyroid/adrenal issues all along and get put on the psych meds because it had been overlooked? What did your prescribing psyciatrist think of your situation. Finaly, have you been able to get off and stay off psych meds?
:)
> I can relate to your story bigtime. Sounds like me. It was zyprexa with me, but hey, there is no way to know if it was med related or not.
>
> I've spent a great deal of time at other forums involving mercury chelation, adrenal, and thyroid issues. Honestly, the best way to reset the faulty HPA axis and get the adrenals healed is...Cortef, or hydrocortisone, in doses ranging from 1.25mg to 20mg per day. The physiological replacement dose is up to 30mg. The body will not heal as long as cortisol is too low. People who do this usually are not on it for life. The time period is more in the range of 1 year, sometimes 2.
>
> The adrenals and thyroid are closely intertwined, so you'll have to keep an eye on both.
>
> Some people do fine with Isocort or Adrenal Cortex Extract, but when those aren't enough, cortisone is the only option and is medically approved for cases like yours. The herbs, such as Siberian ginseng, Ashwaghanda, and Astragulus, and helpful also.
>
> Mine is now in its 3rd year without much progress. Herbs and extracts made me feel worse. I tolerated hydrocortisone ok, but am waiting to see my doctor again to evaluate where to go from here. The primary benefit I noticed with daytime HC was it stopped the nightime peak which had caused racing anxiety at waking, so I know it was doing something to even things out.
>
> Keep in mind that no matter what therapy works for you, it will take minimum 6 months to work, likely a year, and it is uncommon to feel any benefits before 1 to 3 months.
>
> I agree with you...this is a highly under-researched syndrome/disease. I believe, as does my doctor, that it is closely tied into bipolar, anxiety, and depression, not to mention fatigue. All the focus is on the neurotransmitters. But meanwhile, the master controllers of those neuros, such as cortisol and thyroid, go ignored.
Posted by Nuala on August 4, 2008, at 19:35:31
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » Nuala, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 4, 2008, at 0:12:51
Well, as I am sure you know chronic fatigue has been investigated with respect to impaired HPA axis function, and some treatment regimins have included low doses of hydorcortisone.
From reading on the adrenal boards and addisons, some people do quite well.
the thing is that treatment for these conditions usually mean a small dose of hydrocortison or equivalent steroid that mimicks the amount nauturally made by the body. So, I have been told that the typcial dose of 20 mg HC is equal to 5 mg prednisone. A very small dose for persons on supraphysiological doses of steroids for inflammatory and other conditions. It is likely that your sister is on a higher dose than the body makes on its own under normal circumstances.
I would say that if you have a problem with testosterone, it is likely (but not definate) that there may be another endocrine problem. For some reaso, it tends to work this way.
IIf I had your problems, and had been (or still are) on psychmeds, I would have a thorough investigation of my thyroid, adrenal and sex hormone function. It is a given that most psych meds have some effect on the eondcrine system.
Also, some wiht endocrine dysfunctions like myself, that were long-standing, but untreated (read STUPID dr) are subject to psychiatric manifestations of these disease states. Depression, anxiety, and psycosis are quite common in people wiht thyroid, adrenal issues. Sex hormones too effect one's mood. But, most psychiatrists do not concern themselves with such matter. Many psychicians have trouble diagnosing thyroid adrenal and sex hormone dysfunction. So, the end result is many of us get put on psych meds as a first resort.
you can only determine if you can go the natural route by tring it. But I would not try anything really (aside from what you may try re your testosterone issue), till you get yourself fully checked out.
If you need to know the tests etc you may need, I would visit some of the thyroid, adrenal and mens' issue boards.
good luck :)
> Well, this is sort-of a bit away from the cortisol HPA stuff, but of course I think is inter-connected. I was supposed to go see an endocrinologist about this issue, but a urologist was more quickly available. (I am a male, 38.) I've been having some major problems with hormone fluctuations, basically a massive drop in testosterone. We don't know if it is med induced or what. I have gotten little if any relief from testosterone replacement gel at the highest dose, and my levels are still low. I am going on a trial of the anti-cancer med Arimidex, because it shows to greatly increase testosterone and reduce 'harmful' estrogen in men and women. (It of course is usually used with women cancer patients.)
>
> But, I also suffer from chronic fatigue, as well as 'zippo' in the sex-drive region, and I feel almost un-human sometimes. I have had some hunches that there might be an adrenal HPA problem here as well. The thing is, what do you do about it? I read about the 'usual' cortisone treatment, but my sister is on that due to a major bowel inflammatory problem, and it has mostly gave her the usual side effects, like weight gain, black under eyes, etc. Thing is, that is a bit what I sometimes look like after my years of psych med use. So I wonder, am I sometimes getting too little cortisol and sometimes secreting too much? I've thought about going the 'natural' route, with adrenal extracts and black licorice.
>
> So, I don't have an answer to your questions, sorry. But I just wanted to relate.
>
> Best,
> Jay
Posted by bleauberry on August 4, 2008, at 21:07:26
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » Nuala, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on August 4, 2008, at 0:12:51
> I read about the 'usual' cortisone treatment, but my sister is on that due to a major bowel inflammatory problem, and it has mostly gave her the usual side effects, like weight gain, black under eyes, etc.
That sounds like more than a psysiological replacement dose. Therapeutic doses used to treat disease are higher than replacement doses and do come with dreadful side effects as well as eventual adrenal shutdown. Physiological replacement doses have an upper range of 20mg of oral hydrocortisone pills, sometimes 30mg at an extreme. That just replaces what is missing, and doesn't treat any other disease. I wonder what dose your sister is taking?
>Thing is, that is a bit what I sometimes look like after my years of psych med use. So I wonder, am I sometimes getting too little cortisol and sometimes secreting too much? I've thought about going the 'natural' route, with adrenal extracts and black licorice.
You can find this out pretty easily for a little over $100. It is called Adrenal Stress Index test. Can be ordered on the net without a prescription, but integrative MDs and naturopaths have it also. It is a saliva cortisol test taken in 4 test tubes at 4 different times of a day. Mail them in, results in about a week. You'll see if/when cortisol is too high or too low and how it compares to where it should be at that time of day. Also shows DHEA and compares cortisol to that.
>
Posted by G-man885858 on January 27, 2009, at 0:24:57
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
Hello,
I'm a 26 year old male. I also take Seroquel 300mg for sleep. It gives me lots of side effects but I have to deal with them because I'm allergic to almost every other drug! I also suspect that I have low cortisol: Severe depression, no strength, can't drive a car, severe memory problems.
I was on Effexor, Paxil, and Lexapro for 4.5 years, and I think they have completely crippled my adrenals. Now I am severely SUICIDALLY depressed, can't sleep for sh*t, and I really don't want to keep living and suffering so uselessly and hopelessly.I never felt this depressed before starting the Antidepressants and other psych meds. These Psych meds have totally ruined my life!!!
I FEEL YOUR PAIN!
Posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2009, at 19:48:28
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by G-man885858 on January 27, 2009, at 0:24:57
Hi hope you have sought help with your doc. Feeling suicidal should not be taken lightly. What meds currently on and I feel for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by G-man885858 on January 27, 2009, at 21:02:14
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » G-man885858, posted by Phillipa on January 27, 2009, at 19:48:28
I'm on Seroquel 300, Ambien 10mg, Lopressor 25mg (for anxiety & palpitations), and Klonopin 1mg. I take these meds because I have become allergic to virtually all other drugs!!
My doc just gave me an Adrenal Stress INdex (salivary). Hopefully that will give me some results...
And since I'm allergic to so many drugs and supplements, he suggested to try Homeopathy. Has anyone here tried Homeopathy? Is Homeopathy real or is it just a bunch of Quackery?
Posted by garnet71 on January 29, 2009, at 20:42:59
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by G-man885858 on January 27, 2009, at 21:02:14
Re: homeopathy....You might want to talk to people that work at health food stores that sell these remedies (not the owners)for their opinion. I spoke to one the other day, and it was a very informative conversation.
It's worth a try. I found that those who go into homeopathy are more likely to be true healers - dedicated w/o caring so much about making the Mercedes payment...although there are good and bad everywhere, it's worth a try. I could not afford treatment, but went to one years ago (before major problems/issues) and it was a good experience.
Funny that he was the only one who suggested the possibility of Lyme to me. Although I played around in the woods many times while in the military in a high-Lyme region, no other doc thought of it unless I brought it up.
West - Oregon, CA - they are more knowledgable about these types of docs. I suggest you check w/people living in those areas who have more expeience with these types of practitioners. Worth at try. Best to you.
Posted by Phillipa on January 29, 2009, at 21:35:44
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by garnet71 on January 29, 2009, at 20:42:59
Originally was first found in Lymes CT hence name. The North East Best versed docs googled that today. Love Phillipa
Posted by peggybek on April 16, 2011, at 16:10:38
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
In reply to this post: 08/08
> I have been on Seroquel (quetiapine) for 4 years, along with Lexapro. Originally, I was on 300 mg Seroquel and 30 Lexapro. Currently 70% of 25mg (tapering down)and no lexapro.
>
> I was subsequently diagnosed as hypothyroid 3 years ago, and placed on thyroxine. My old medical records, which I consulted showed I was hypothyroid in 1996!
>
> I began tapering my psych meds as I felt infinately better!
>
> However, after a time, I could no longer tolerate any dose of thyroxine (any variety) or Armour.
>
> I was recently diagnosed with partial secondary adrenal insufficency, which I researched and had tests run for as a result of intolerance to all thyroid medications.
>
> I believe that my HPA axis and HPT axis were likely already depressed and it was an error to place me on Seroquel.
>
> From what little I could find in abstract form on Pubmed, showed that Seroquel, even in low doses can significantly lower ACTH and cortisol.
>
> I don't want to go on hydrocortisone for life if there is any chance that the current Seroqeul dose I am taking is interfering sufficiently with my cortisol production.
>
> However, at a 30% taper, I vary in anxiety and fatigue throughout the day. TOTALLY variable and I can't predict when it will strike, or if I will feel well enough to do things. Sometimes I feel ok, others, paralyzed in anxiety and extreme fatigue.
>
> I am starting to wonder if the Seroquel has caused a permanent impairment to my HPA axis and adrenal glands and god knows what else.
>
> Has anyone else been through something similar?
>
> Does anyone have a low cortisol situation (any form of adrenal insufficiency not caused by a antipsychotic) and is on psych meds becasue of it?
>
> I feel that the literature is so under represented on the subject of hypoadrenia or impaired HPA axis function > I see plenty on cushings and HYPER adrenal situations. It seems that a lot of psych meds , esp the newer antipsychotics are designed specificially to low or decrease HPA axis activity.
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
Hi Nuala,My name is XXX, UK. I am doing some research to see if taking Seroquel has caused my adrenal/thyroid issues or visa versa and I came across your post.
I know it was a long time ago but I wonder if you did manage to stabilise your adrenals and get back onto your thyroid meds?
Like you I have severely effected by psych drugs that I may never have needed due to existing thyroid issue (ignored by Docs!!!) and am now in a worse state than before!!
Any comments greatly appreciated and I hope this message finds you well.
Kind regards
XXX, UK
Posted by peggybek on April 16, 2011, at 16:14:19
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
In reply to this post: 08/08
> I have been on Seroquel (quetiapine) for 4 years, along with Lexapro. Originally, I was on 300 mg Seroquel and 30 Lexapro. Currently 70% of 25mg (tapering down)and no lexapro.
>
> I was subsequently diagnosed as hypothyroid 3 years ago, and placed on thyroxine. My old medical records, which I consulted showed I was hypothyroid in 1996!
>
> I began tapering my psych meds as I felt infinately better!
>
> However, after a time, I could no longer tolerate any dose of thyroxine (any variety) or Armour.
>
> I was recently diagnosed with partial secondary adrenal insufficency, which I researched and had tests run for as a result of intolerance to all thyroid medications.
>
> I believe that my HPA axis and HPT axis were likely already depressed and it was an error to place me on Seroquel.
>
> From what little I could find in abstract form on Pubmed, showed that Seroquel, even in low doses can significantly lower ACTH and cortisol.
>
> I don't want to go on hydrocortisone for life if there is any chance that the current Seroqeul dose I am taking is interfering sufficiently with my cortisol production.
>
> However, at a 30% taper, I vary in anxiety and fatigue throughout the day. TOTALLY variable and I can't predict when it will strike, or if I will feel well enough to do things. Sometimes I feel ok, others, paralyzed in anxiety and extreme fatigue.
>
> I am starting to wonder if the Seroquel has caused a permanent impairment to my HPA axis and adrenal glands and god knows what else.
>
> Has anyone else been through something similar?
>
> Does anyone have a low cortisol situation (any form of adrenal insufficiency not caused by a antipsychotic) and is on psych meds becasue of it?
>
> I feel that the literature is so under represented on the subject of hypoadrenia or impaired HPA axis function > I see plenty on cushings and HYPER adrenal situations. It seems that a lot of psych meds , esp the newer antipsychotics are designed specificially to low or decrease HPA axis activity.
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
Hi Nuala,I am doing some research to see if taking Seroquel has caused my adrenal/thyroid issues or visa versa and I came across your post.
I know it was a long time ago but I wonder if you did manage to stabilise your adrenals and get back onto your thyroid meds?
Like you I have severely effected by psych drugs that I may never have needed due to existing thyroid issue (ignored by Docs!!!) and am now in a worse state than before!!
Any comments greatly appreciated and I hope this message finds you well.
Kind regards
peggybek, UK
Posted by peggybek on April 17, 2011, at 5:41:48
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety » Nuala, posted by peggybek on April 16, 2011, at 16:14:19
Also, in relation to this thread please can I have some feedback from anyone else who has any comments on the effect psych drugs have had on their adrenals/thyroid or making their original psych symptoms worse - even AFTER weaning off them. Has anyone recovered their previous level of health they had before taking these pills?
I have had to end up on steroids(hydrocortisol, all natural things tried first) as my adrenals have been totally destroyed (because of an ignored pre-existing condition) but my body cannot process HC so am now having to change to Prednisolone. So any comments on subsequent adrenal support/thyroid treatment you have tried and been successful with would be great?
As I have no alternative now but to take steroids and am struggling here any SUCCESS (sorry, dont think I could cope with any negative ones! ;o) stories much appreciated.
Many thanks x
Posted by Idelle on May 7, 2011, at 21:03:12
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 4, 2008, at 19:22:49
> Thanks for your story, I am glad someone can relate.
>
> I did go on a trial of hydrocortison 3x daily in June. At first, I had trouble tolerating the HC. My dr figured that I might be extra sensitive after being so low on cortisol for so long.
>
> However, the in-between does crashes and especially at night after I took my Seroquel, I had incredible anxiety, at levels I had not seen since before psych treatment. One day, I decided that I just could not tolerate the effects of the HC, especially the racing heart, and surges of adrenaline feeling, so I took nothing. I had just been on for 2 weeks and was at 20 mg.
>
> Well, that night I had a nightmare from which I would not wake and felt that "weird" feeling that I felt quite often before being put on psych meds. It was a form of psychosis. I was soooo scared. Of course, I immediately went back on the HC and it did not happen to that degree again.
>
> My dr thinks I will need a long -acting steroid, to avoid these dips and re-visits into depression and anxitey when I am at low periods of cortisol throught the day.
>
> Before I want to go this route, which is likely a life time committment, to being on steroids, I thought I would try to taper off the last 25 mg of Seroquel and see what hapens.Maybe I can go back on my thyroid meds if I am lucky just by cutting the Seroquel.
>
> The literature says that Seroquel SIGNIFICANTLY lowers ACTH and cortisl, and the study I found was using doses of 25 and 50 mg!
>
> I was too scared to go off the last 25, but I feel I have nothing to lose. My experieence with the HC has shown me that in addition to my thyorid issues (depression, anhedonia, etc), the adrenal issue has been much more prominent in my "mental illness" that I had realised. It is the main source of the panic and extreme anxiety.
>
> Right now I am tapering off the HC as well. I just need to get a new baseline before I make any decisions. I definately need to address the encodrine situation first. But if all else fails, I will have to go back on some different psych meds.
>
> I wanted ask you how you came to be diagnosed with adrenal issues and if your psycician sees a link between the Zyprexa? Did you have thyroid/adrenal issues all along and get put on the psych meds because it had been overlooked? What did your prescribing psyciatrist think of your situation. Finaly, have you been able to get off and stay off psych meds?
>
> :)
>
>
> > I can relate to your story bigtime. Sounds like me. It was zyprexa with me, but hey, there is no way to know if it was med related or not.
> >
> > I've spent a great deal of time at other forums involving mercury chelation, adrenal, and thyroid issues. Honestly, the best way to reset the faulty HPA axis and get the adrenals healed is...Cortef, or hydrocortisone, in doses ranging from 1.25mg to 20mg per day. The physiological replacement dose is up to 30mg. The body will not heal as long as cortisol is too low. People who do this usually are not on it for life. The time period is more in the range of 1 year, sometimes 2.
> >
> > The adrenals and thyroid are closely intertwined, so you'll have to keep an eye on both.
> >
> > Some people do fine with Isocort or Adrenal Cortex Extract, but when those aren't enough, cortisone is the only option and is medically approved for cases like yours. The herbs, such as Siberian ginseng, Ashwaghanda, and Astragulus, and helpful also.
> >
> > Mine is now in its 3rd year without much progress. Herbs and extracts made me feel worse. I tolerated hydrocortisone ok, but am waiting to see my doctor again to evaluate where to go from here. The primary benefit I noticed with daytime HC was it stopped the nightime peak which had caused racing anxiety at waking, so I know it was doing something to even things out.
> >
> > Keep in mind that no matter what therapy works for you, it will take minimum 6 months to work, likely a year, and it is uncommon to feel any benefits before 1 to 3 months.
> >
> > I agree with you...this is a highly under-researched syndrome/disease. I believe, as does my doctor, that it is closely tied into bipolar, anxiety, and depression, not to mention fatigue. All the focus is on the neurotransmitters. But meanwhile, the master controllers of those neuros, such as cortisol and thyroid, go ignored.
>
>Nuala, how are you feeling now?
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2011, at 21:43:19
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Idelle on May 7, 2011, at 21:03:12
Cortisone or steroids also cause low bone density osteoporosis so hope you can get off them. Phillipa
Posted by huxley on May 15, 2011, at 3:33:49
In reply to Low Cortisol, Seroquel, Anxiety, posted by Nuala on August 2, 2008, at 20:02:28
> However, at a 30% taper, I vary in anxiety and fatigue throughout the day. TOTALLY variable and I can't predict when it will strike, or if I will feel well enough to do things. Sometimes I feel ok, others, paralyzed in anxiety and extreme fatigue.
>
> I am starting to wonder if the Seroquel has caused a permanent impairment to my HPA axis and adrenal glands and god knows what else.
>
> Has anyone else been through something similar?Yes plenty of people. Me included. I haave had it for the past year from zyprexa.
Every day at arround 2-4 oclock I get massive fatigue, anxiety and facial flushing. This normally lasts for the rest of the day. It is a result of tapering Zyprexa.
I try and tell my doctor and she tells me I have bipolar and to take more meds......
Posted by torridcalm on May 21, 2011, at 13:39:59
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol - Anxiety - ADRENALS + Psych drug » peggybek, posted by peggybek on April 17, 2011, at 5:41:48
predizone has a lot of psych side effects, I found out the hard way. I still have to be treating with predizone 3-4 times a year for herniated disks in my back but now my doc gives me a big fat bottle of clonipin everytime he gives me predizone. predizone makes some people go completely off there nut and others have no problem.
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2011, at 21:21:43
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol - Anxiety - ADRENALS + Psych drug, posted by torridcalm on May 21, 2011, at 13:39:59
Killed my Mother at age 48. Phillipa
Posted by torridcalm on May 21, 2011, at 21:58:04
In reply to Re: Low Cortisol - Anxiety - ADRENALS + Psych drug » torridcalm, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2011, at 21:21:43
it's a serious medication, sorry about you mother, it indirectly almost ended my life 6 years ago. Now I brace myself for the mind lossing side effects and will not take predizone without clonipin too.
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