![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:27:20
Does alcohol make anxiety worse in the longrun? Obviously, alcohol quells anxiety abit in the short term, but what about the next day? Do you make yourself more prone to a panic attack? And is there any science behind it all?
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 14:26:33
In reply to Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:27:20
Hi, Meri.
> what about the next day?
If I get fairly "high" on alcohol in an evening (for me, 2 glasses of wine), the next morning I feel so refreshed and often free of depression and anxiety. I have no idea what the chemistry about it could be; I'd be very interested to know what's going on there.
I don't drink very often, so I don't know if this would hold as a strategy over time.
Posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 14:30:05
In reply to my experience » Meri-Tuuli, posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 14:26:33
I don't know what it is, but it could be the suppression of REM sleep that linkadge has often mentioned.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 15:07:30
In reply to REM suppressin?, posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 14:30:05
> I don't know what it is, but it could be the suppression of REM sleep that linkadge has often mentioned.
You mean the fact that you feel refreshed and depression free the next day?
Hmm. I was wondering if there was a link between drink and anxiety the next day. In GABA receptor way - they get sedated during the inital drink phase, then the next day they get abit more 'overreactive' as a sort of compenstory measure, so therefore you end up with a net increase of anxiety, rather than anxiety suppression. But I have no idea - sadly I don't have the knowledge of Linkadge.
Oh well.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 15:26:59
In reply to Re: REM suppressin?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 15:07:30
> > it could be the suppression of REM sleep that linkadge has often mentioned.
>
> You mean the fact that you feel refreshed and depression free the next day?Yes, Meri; my post was a little disconnected. I wonder if the fact that I feel so refreshed the morning after a good drink might be from REM suppression. I don't think it would work very often, however; it hasn't seemed to work even 2 days in a row.
But you think alcohol may work the opposite for you and INCREASE next-day anxiety, eh? Sigh. It is too bad these things are so complicated and unknown.
Posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 16:09:46
In reply to Re: REM suppression? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 15:26:59
More than 4 standard drinks a night and my sleep is affected adversely. Then I can wake after 4 hours and that's it for the night.
Maybe within the suggested limit is OK?
(Which for Merri is only 2 drinks a day and only 3 days a week. Can women's livers really be that different to mens?)
Posted by bassman on October 6, 2006, at 16:57:17
In reply to Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:27:20
I definately feel more anxious the next morning after, say, 3.5-4 drinks. 2-3 drinks dosn't make any difference-but, I've found some red wines (like a good Merlot) make me feel more anxious no matter how little of them I drink. Carlo Rossi is fine, so I drink it and save money and anxiety. :>}
Posted by Guy on October 6, 2006, at 18:21:19
In reply to Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:27:20
For me, excessive consumption of alcohol leads to early awakening (1 a.m.) and extreme anxiety the following day. I strongly recommend that you avoid alcohol as an anxiolytic.
Posted by fca on October 6, 2006, at 18:42:01
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Guy on October 6, 2006, at 18:21:19
yes. yes, yes. There is almost inevitably a rebound 4-8 hours after consumption. I can not explain the biochemistry but I know it clinically. That certainly does not mean one can not enjoy a drink and wake up refreshed. But, and I stress but, this probably does not include most of us who are subject to anxiety and depression. If noting else it interfers with sleep and heavy drinking has a clear rebound effect. Trust me, if it worked it would drive the pharaceutical industry down the tubes. You also have to deal with all kinds of problems assiciated with tolerance, dependency, medical complications and drug interactions. What a bummer because I did like my wine. My Best fca
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 21:43:29
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by fca on October 6, 2006, at 18:42:01
I disagree as I've never felt better in my life or slept better than drinking 5-6 beers with .5 of xanax. No never any rebound anxiety. I just had great energy and wanted to go places, do thing,s and functioned at the highest level I ever have. Wonder if the pharmacitical companies have anything to do with this antidrink thinking? And no I never drank more. Or earlier in the day. It was always after work or not earlier than 9pm. Can it controlled drinking or whatever but I used to have fun. We went out and did all sorts of neat stuff. Haven't been out in l0 years or laughed or had fun since quitting my beer. If this is what an alchoholic is then I guess they have a lot more fun then I do. And quality of life. Love Phillipa
Posted by fca on October 6, 2006, at 22:05:53
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 21:43:29
No sarcasm intended--why did you stop and why are you not drinking now. Thanks fca
Posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 22:16:44
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by fca on October 6, 2006, at 22:05:53
Because my idiot pdoc at the time put me on chloral hydrate and kept me on it for years. See my thyroid went sky high and anxiety with it. I went to see the pdocs I worked with and when I told them my pdoc let me drink she was shocked and called him. No idea what he said. But before they got the results of the thyroid back I was in the hospital and that pdoc walked up to me and shaking his head no said you don't want to go back to work do you? Like an idiot I said no . And the next thing I knew I was on Disability. I think he was afraid he'd get in trouble if I went back to work from the pdoc I knew. Love Phillipa
Posted by deuce224 on October 7, 2006, at 1:06:00
In reply to Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 6, 2006, at 13:27:20
I had to quit drinking altogether because of anxiety and panic induced by alcohol. I would feel great the night I was drinking, but the next day I would have panic syptoms that would slowly turn into high general anxiety over a few day period. Just a note, this would be in reference to drinking until intoxication, at least 10 beers per time. The panic and anxiety would sometimes be far more extreme than others.
> Does alcohol make anxiety worse in the longrun? Obviously, alcohol quells anxiety abit in the short term, but what about the next day? Do you make yourself more prone to a panic attack? And is there any science behind it all?
>
> Kind regards
>
> Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:39:36
In reply to Re: REM suppression? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by pseudoname on October 6, 2006, at 15:26:59
Hey PN!
> But you think alcohol may work the opposite for you and INCREASE next-day anxiety, eh?
Yes, something like that. Obviously I haven't conducted any placebo, double blind, crossover studies yet - but it might be true. Perhaps. LOL!
>Sigh. It is too bad these things are so complicated and unknown.
Yeah, isn't it just.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:44:43
In reply to Re: REM suppression?, posted by Declan on October 6, 2006, at 16:09:46
Hey Mister Declan
> More than 4 standard drinks a night and my sleep is affected adversely. Then I can wake after 4 hours and that's it for the night.
Its taken me awhile to realise that alcohol really affects sleep badly. I wish someone would've told me that sooner- perhaps I wouldn't have drunk so much during my early student days...
> Maybe within the suggested limit is OK?
> (Which for Merri is only 2 drinks a day and only 3 days a week. Can women's livers really be that different to mens?)I know, I've been wondering this.... is that the 'official' limit in Oz? In the UK it's something like no more than 14 units/week, which means you can have a bottle of Becks (275ml) five nights a week, or something like that. Anyway its frighteningly little. Oh well.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:49:24
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by bassman on October 6, 2006, at 16:57:17
Hey...
> I definately feel more anxious the next morning after, say, 3.5-4 drinks. 2-3 drinks dosn't make any difference-but, I've found some red wines (like a good Merlot) make me feel more anxious no matter how little of them I drink. Carlo Rossi is fine, so I drink it and save money and anxiety. :>}
Thats interesting. I personally haven't noticed any correlation between alcohol type and anxiety. For me, its just a couple of glasses of wine or something....oh well. Its interesting what you say about the red vino - I always drink red myself... I think mostly because I'm trying to delude myself that because its full of antioxidants, its somehow not too bad drinking it - like grape juice or something...hmm I quite like nice Merlot myself....despite what they said in 'Sideways'. LOL! After that film, I did actually try some Pinor Noir, but well, it wasn't *that* great or anything.
Anyway.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:51:44
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Guy on October 6, 2006, at 18:21:19
Hiya...
> For me, excessive consumption of alcohol leads to early awakening (1 a.m.) and extreme anxiety the following day. I strongly recommend that you avoid alcohol as an anxiolytic.
Sadly for me, its the only anxiolytic I can get my hands on... and its available at the supermarket....I've never tried a benzo.
Although I wouldn't class my consumption as excessive - I'd say its pretty moderate actually. Like one or two beers, three or four times a week....
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:53:13
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience? » fca, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 22:16:44
Hey PJ!
> chloral hydrate
Whats that used for? I've never heard of it before.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:55:35
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by deuce224 on October 7, 2006, at 1:06:00
Hey...
I never drink until intoxication (well not in the past year anyway) so for me, my theory goes, it just is worse the day after, even if I've just had a couple of small glasses of wine, or a couple of beers.
Hmm.
Sigh. To be healthy mentally.....
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by bassman on October 7, 2006, at 8:59:15
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 21:43:29
That's funny-I have my "9 PM Rule" (no beer before 9), too. It's really non-PC to be an advocate for beer and benzos-but my experience is the same as yours.
Posted by bassman on October 7, 2006, at 9:16:31
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by Phillipa on October 6, 2006, at 21:43:29
I just had a Thunderbolt of the Obvious. Maybe alcohol is like other psychoactive drugs (think SSRI's and the different benzos)-it works for some people, some people it makes worse, it depends when you take it and how much. Looked at in that light, it's just another drug in the anti-depression and anxiety arsenal. I guess the big point there is to take the moral stigma away (and the over-blown claims of respiratory depression, which is often the same thing, dressed in scientific garb) and as with other drugs, be empirical-does it really improve the quality of life? What are the hazards; notice we don't ask that question enough for prescription meds, in my opinion, like the cases of diabetes and psychosis from some of the new AP's. Or liver damage/failure with Serzone. End of rant-I just am not in the "let's take any new med and see what happens" school of thought.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 9:55:32
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience?, posted by bassman on October 7, 2006, at 9:16:31
>Looked at in that light, it's just another drug in the anti-depression and anxiety arsenal.
Yes, thats what I was thinking. Its like when I stopped St John's Wort, and the next two weeks, my goodness, I had major rebound anxiety - so much so, I ended up in ER with a panic attack. Not that they did anything...oh the joys of free healthcare. But not to moan... So my thinking was that there might be some sort of rebound effect with alcohol.
>I guess the big point there is to take the moral stigma away (and the over-blown claims of respiratory depression, which is often the same thing, dressed in scientific garb)
Well, its funny you should say that because there isn't really any stigma attached to alcohol here in Finland/UK -- its sort of the opposite to some degree. You're abit weird if you don't drink at all, and people authomatically assume you're a recovering alcoholic or something.
>notice we don't ask that question enough for prescription meds, in my opinion, like the cases of diabetes and psychosis from some of the new AP's. Or liver damage/failure with Serzone. End of rant-I just am not in the "let's take any new med and see what happens" school of thought.
Oh yes, I'm in exactly the same school of thought. I often think pysch drugs end up doing more damage in the long-term than they do good. For me, yes depression/anxiety is bad, but its just as bad for me being on some SSRI where i sleep/eat all day and can't do anything. I'd rather be drug free, thank you very much.
I think conventional pysch drugs should be the last resort, and not the first.
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by bassman on October 7, 2006, at 11:12:43
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience? » bassman, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 9:55:32
What you learn at this site...in the US, certainly within some circles, there is a stigma to drinking-and always a huge stigma to mental health problems. The latter is seldom admitted. I went to a fundamental Christian church for many years, and at non-church social functions, there would be a liter box or two of wine sitting around with the soda, etc. The naughty would have a glass or two. They were almost always women.:>} How daring.
Posted by Phillipa on October 7, 2006, at 11:28:26
In reply to Re: Alcohol + anxiety...whats your experience? » bassman, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 9:55:32
Merri chloral hydrate is the oldest sedative known to man from the l800's took the place of alchohol for surgery. Hummm interesting now they use it for surgical proceedures in babies? If you combine it with alchohol it's a Mickey Finn they told me on babble. So anyway I don't take it anymore but the fear of alchohol was instilled in me. I know pdocs drink how come its okay for them and not us? Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on October 7, 2006, at 18:06:46
In reply to Re: REM suppression? » Declan, posted by Meri-Tuuli on October 7, 2006, at 8:44:43
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.