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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by katia on May 19, 2004, at 21:35:25
In reply to New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 19, 2004, at 20:52:21
HI Nathan and welcome,
I tried Lam and Li together for a bit, but became a shuffling drooling zombie on Lithium. And when I upped the Li one more time, I developed the Lam rash so I stopped the Lam. and then eventually the Li. b/c I needed my brain back.That's been my experience w/ Li lam combo.
Katia
> I am currently on 300mg of Lamictal. I started treatment with Lamictal this past Fall (2003) and was ramped up to 400mg after the normal additive introduction of the drug.
>
> I had already been on 20mg of Lexapro when we introduced the Lamictal. I eventually tapered the Lexapro to 10mg, but couldn't stay comfortably at 5mg when we tried that, so I've stayed at 10mg.
>
> In the begining, the Lamictal was working wonderfully; the side effects were minimal and my mood was good. My therapist even recently told me that she had never seen me so balanced-out as then. But things have changed in the last few months.
>
> The side effects are upsetting me. At night things are really annoying. I get really twitchy and my legs get really restless (Restless Leg Syndrome is already in my family) to the point that I am uncomfortable. I also get that "itchy" (a bit different than itchy, but that's the best way I can explain it)feeling all over. I can feel random places in my body twitch and spasm too.
>
> During the day, I'm always tired and down, I get headaches, and I also have somewhat blurry/out of focused vision at times too and this is odd-feeling because I've always had good eyes.
>
> Recently I went to my doctor and told him about this and he decided to drop my dose from 400mg to 300mg of Lamictal and add Lithium.
>
> Well, I've been on Lithium for a couple of weeks, only just got to the 900mg mark 5 days ago, but I feel completely awful. I'm going in for my blood-level lab on Monday.
>
> Now I have all the same Lamictal side effects plus I'm flat emotionally and I feel very blah and down if anything. I seem out of it too. Like when I am driving my car (not that I'm intoxicated or unsafe) things seem slow, and when I am doing cognitive activites like reading or using the computer or taking notes in a lecture, everything just takes me more time and seems fuzzy. I am also feeling nauseous and sort of "ill."
>
> I cut out all caffiene and alcohol. I'm going to go on a low carbohydrate diet too, because I am a HUGE sugar junkie. My doctor said that people in the Bipolar Spectrum are sensitive to all kinds of changes in their moods and that the peaking and crashing of sugar blood levels can cause lots of unwanted mood fluctuations that just complicate the situation.
>
> I had a negative reaction when my doctor suggested Lithium, but I thought I should try it. I'm still giving it a fair shot, but if I don't feel much better by my next appointment, 2.5 weeks away, I'm going to have him take me off as much of all of this as possible!
>
> I'm glad I found this board. It has been helpful.
>
> Looking forward to dialoging with the group,
> -Nathan
>
>
Posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 0:57:55
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » Nathan23, posted by katia on May 19, 2004, at 21:35:25
Thanks for posting Katia...
If you don't mind my asking, what medicines did you go to after stopping lamictal/lithium? Are you on meds now? which ones?-N
> HI Nathan and welcome,
> I tried Lam and Li together for a bit, but became a shuffling drooling zombie on Lithium. And when I upped the Li one more time, I developed the Lam rash so I stopped the Lam. and then eventually the Li. b/c I needed my brain back.
>
> That's been my experience w/ Li lam combo.
> Katia
Posted by flipsactown on May 20, 2004, at 2:04:36
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 0:57:55
Hello,I took Prozac, Remeron, Lamictal and Lithium for about 6 months, but ended up stopping all as I was no longer getting the sustained relief from my unipolar depression. It must have been the poop out factor as I have been on Prozac nearly 10 years and my pdoc just kept adding on to the Prozac in the hope that I would get the sustained relief once again. But after 6 months of my depression returning in the late afternoon and evening, I decided to try one of the older tried and true ADs, Nardil. I have been on it 6 weeks and initially was getting excellent relief starting the second week. However by the 4th week, I had to do something about the severe insomnia from the Nardil and recently reduced my Nardil dosage by one half. Although the insominia had become less severe and my taking Seroquel before bedtime had allowed me to sleep continuously for 5 or 6 hours, I noticed that my depression was making a comeback. I will increase my Nardil slowly back up to 60mg and hope that my depression lifts again.
FST
> Thanks for posting Katia...
> If you don't mind my asking, what medicines did you go to after stopping lamictal/lithium? Are you on meds now? which ones?
>
> -N
>
>
>
> > HI Nathan and welcome,
> > I tried Lam and Li together for a bit, but became a shuffling drooling zombie on Lithium. And when I upped the Li one more time, I developed the Lam rash so I stopped the Lam. and then eventually the Li. b/c I needed my brain back.
> >
> > That's been my experience w/ Li lam combo.
> > Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 11:41:40
In reply to New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 19, 2004, at 20:52:21
Hi Nathan,
I was on Lam and lithium for 1-1/2 years doing pretty well at 75mg until mixed state depression started breaking through (many life stresses contributed). Hoping to raise the dose to the 'therapeutic' 200, I started very slowly ramping up. At 125mg I started getting the 'itchies' but figured it was a delayed allergic reaction to our many cats. At 150mg the itching was intense and I started getting the twitchies and my skin felt on the verge of all over irritation. My mood was getting more anxious and irritable as well. Long story short, I eventually stopped lithium and lamictal because they were doing nothing for my increasing depression.A few months later I was on a completely different drug, one whose side effects were the Stevens Johnson rash. I got it and ended up in the hospital and very sick for over 5 weeks. Moral of the story is I very strongly suspect that lamictal sensitized me to this allergic reaction and the 'itchies' were the warning signs that an inflammatory condition was setting up in my body. I'm now sensitive to many drugs I never was before. I feel like wearing a T-shirt with the words 'Got Lamictal itchies? WARNING, WARNING!!!' Good news is that I feel much better off lithium and lamictal but getting off prescription psych meds was no walk in the park. - BarbaraCat
> The side effects are upsetting me. At night things are really annoying. I get really twitchy and my legs get really restless (Restless Leg Syndrome is already in my family) to the point that I am uncomfortable. I also get that "itchy" (a bit different than itchy, but that's the best way I can explain it)feeling all over. I can feel random places in my body twitch and spasm too.
>
> During the day, I'm always tired and down, I get headaches, and I also have somewhat blurry/out of focused vision at times too and this is odd-feeling because I've always had good eyes.
>
> Recently I went to my doctor and told him about this and he decided to drop my dose from 400mg to 300mg of Lamictal and add Lithium.
>
> Well, I've been on Lithium for a couple of weeks, only just got to the 900mg mark 5 days ago, but I feel completely awful. I'm going in for my blood-level lab on Monday.
>
> Now I have all the same Lamictal side effects plus I'm flat emotionally and I feel very blah and down if anything. I seem out of it too. Like when I am driving my car (not that I'm intoxicated or unsafe) things seem slow, and when I am doing cognitive activites like reading or using the computer or taking notes in a lecture, everything just takes me more time and seems fuzzy. I am also feeling nauseous and sort of "ill."
>
> I cut out all caffiene and alcohol. I'm going to go on a low carbohydrate diet too, because I am a HUGE sugar junkie. My doctor said that people in the Bipolar Spectrum are sensitive to all kinds of changes in their moods and that the peaking and crashing of sugar blood levels can cause lots of unwanted mood fluctuations that just complicate the situation.
>
> I had a negative reaction when my doctor suggested Lithium, but I thought I should try it. I'm still giving it a fair shot, but if I don't feel much better by my next appointment, 2.5 weeks away, I'm going to have him take me off as much of all of this as possible!
>
> I'm glad I found this board. It has been helpful.
>
> Looking forward to dialoging with the group,
> -Nathan
>
>
Posted by Dalilah on May 20, 2004, at 12:39:11
In reply to New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 19, 2004, at 20:52:21
Hi Nathan,
I take 300mg Lamictal and 900mg Lithium (and 50 seroquel to put me to sleep.) I've been doing this for at least one and a half years. It works for me. Maybe the Seroquel could help you sleep, but it sounds like you have a lot of awful side effects. I am happy to say I do not. Of course I had been on about every drug in the book before I found this combo. If the side effects are intolerable, I get off the drug. I hope this helps. I wanted to write cause we have similar doses. I'm afraid all this proves is that this science of psyche meds is completely frustrating and different for every individual.
-Dalilah
Posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 12:46:04
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » Nathan23, posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 11:41:40
BarbaraCat, you mention an increasing anxiousness and irritability on the higher dose of lamictal....
I have felt like the lamictal and/or the lithium has been making me feel more anxious and irritable. It's a different anxiety than the anxiety I experienced back when I used to get panic attacks though. This anxiety is more like an underlying anxiety...always in the background but it feels like it's masked over by something that keeps it from feeling like my more traditional anxiety. When I first started feeling this way it was weird because it felt like a "new" kind of anxiety/depression (I get the combo of the two). I think that the old depression/anxiety might be breaking through my meds and that the meds are just making the symptoms of the depression/anxiety a bit different. It's rather upsetting.
I'm tempted to get off this stuff and get on some form of an Antidepressant cocktail. I've only tried Paxil and Lexapro... I'm feeling less convinced that AD's "aren't going to work" for me. I'm thinking that if got totally off the Lamictal/Lithium and I got on something like increasing my Lexapro back to 20mg and adding wellbutrin or effexor that might work. Or maybe I could do Lexapro, Zoloft, and a low dose of wellbutrin.
> Hi Nathan,
> I was on Lam and lithium for 1-1/2 years doing pretty well at 75mg until mixed state depression started breaking through (many life stresses contributed). Hoping to raise the dose to the 'therapeutic' 200, I started very slowly ramping up. At 125mg I started getting the 'itchies' but figured it was a delayed allergic reaction to our many cats. At 150mg the itching was intense and I started getting the twitchies and my skin felt on the verge of all over irritation. My mood was getting more anxious and irritable as well. Long story short, I eventually stopped lithium and lamictal because they were doing nothing for my increasing depression.
>
> A few months later I was on a completely different drug, one whose side effects were the Stevens Johnson rash. I got it and ended up in the hospital and very sick for over 5 weeks. Moral of the story is I very strongly suspect that lamictal sensitized me to this allergic reaction and the 'itchies' were the warning signs that an inflammatory condition was setting up in my body. I'm now sensitive to many drugs I never was before. I feel like wearing a T-shirt with the words 'Got Lamictal itchies? WARNING, WARNING!!!' Good news is that I feel much better off lithium and lamictal but getting off prescription psych meds was no walk in the park. - BarbaraCat
Posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 14:06:04
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 0:57:55
Hi Nathan,
I only continued on w/ Seroquel for sleep and got a bit hypomanic. It was fun. But it ended, and now I'm on Trileptal 450mg, Seroquel 15mg for sleep, and Paxil 12.5mg.
Katia
Posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 14:09:38
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » Nathan23, posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 11:41:40
Hey Barb-Cat,
That's good news that you are doing well off of meds. If it hadn't been for me buying the house, restarting grad school, moving, etc. all that goes into it; I probably wouldn't have restarted meds. I am using them as support right now, but won't stay on them forever.How're you doing otherwise? I'm crazy busy, constantly stressed out, but all ultimately good stuff - it's just hard now.
Katia
Posted by AMD on May 20, 2004, at 14:11:44
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » Nathan23, posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 14:06:04
I'm on Trileptal now, 900 mg, and it seems to be lifting me out of my depression and ending a rather vicious phase of rapid cycling. Fingers crossed.
Also, aside from a little sleepiness, I have not noticed any real side effects. My cognitive abilities, if anything, seem to be returning (especially after quitting the Lamictal).
I'm also on Celexa 40 mg day, which abates depression.
In my case, I think the Lamictal (25 mg), which I started in January, led to the rapid cycling and, in general, made me more obsessive about everything, especially my health.
Posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 14:12:46
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 12:46:04
Hey Nate again,
I forgot to mention that I restarted Lamictal about two months ago for about 5 weeks, but couldn't tolerate it due to the activating qualities of agitation/irritability. The first time I was on it, I was activated on the euphoric side, but not this past time. I am much better w/o it. I started Paxil in place of it.
Are you bipolar?
KAtia
> BarbaraCat, you mention an increasing anxiousness and irritability on the higher dose of lamictal....
>
> I have felt like the lamictal and/or the lithium has been making me feel more anxious and irritable. It's a different anxiety than the anxiety I experienced back when I used to get panic attacks though. This anxiety is more like an underlying anxiety...always in the background but it feels like it's masked over by something that keeps it from feeling like my more traditional anxiety. When I first started feeling this way it was weird because it felt like a "new" kind of anxiety/depression (I get the combo of the two). I think that the old depression/anxiety might be breaking through my meds and that the meds are just making the symptoms of the depression/anxiety a bit different. It's rather upsetting.
>
> I'm tempted to get off this stuff and get on some form of an Antidepressant cocktail. I've only tried Paxil and Lexapro... I'm feeling less convinced that AD's "aren't going to work" for me. I'm thinking that if got totally off the Lamictal/Lithium and I got on something like increasing my Lexapro back to 20mg and adding wellbutrin or effexor that might work. Or maybe I could do Lexapro, Zoloft, and a low dose of wellbutrin.
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Nathan,
> > I was on Lam and lithium for 1-1/2 years doing pretty well at 75mg until mixed state depression started breaking through (many life stresses contributed). Hoping to raise the dose to the 'therapeutic' 200, I started very slowly ramping up. At 125mg I started getting the 'itchies' but figured it was a delayed allergic reaction to our many cats. At 150mg the itching was intense and I started getting the twitchies and my skin felt on the verge of all over irritation. My mood was getting more anxious and irritable as well. Long story short, I eventually stopped lithium and lamictal because they were doing nothing for my increasing depression.
> >
> > A few months later I was on a completely different drug, one whose side effects were the Stevens Johnson rash. I got it and ended up in the hospital and very sick for over 5 weeks. Moral of the story is I very strongly suspect that lamictal sensitized me to this allergic reaction and the 'itchies' were the warning signs that an inflammatory condition was setting up in my body. I'm now sensitive to many drugs I never was before. I feel like wearing a T-shirt with the words 'Got Lamictal itchies? WARNING, WARNING!!!' Good news is that I feel much better off lithium and lamictal but getting off prescription psych meds was no walk in the park. - BarbaraCat
>
Posted by sac on May 20, 2004, at 21:28:46
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 12:46:04
Nathan, I just wanted to respond to this post because I can say from experience the anxiety and irritability is definately from the Lamictal. I am currently on 150 mgs. Lamictal but used to be at 200. This is my second go around in 3 years with Lamictal. I also have a generalized anxiety that is different than the panic attack type anxiety. I have read in a book one time about the side effect of "emotional upset" and for me that describes it best. It's hard sometimes to tell whether it's depression or anxiety. For me, I finding my mood is generally dysphoric on the Lamictal. In the beginning, I felt great but after a few months it goes downhill. This was what happened to me last time and that's why I stopped it once before. That is just my experience though. I am currently down to 100mgs. from 150 and decreasing slowly. I may stay around 50 -75 mgs. until I figure out what my next step will be.
> BarbaraCat, you mention an increasing anxiousness and irritability on the higher dose of lamictal....
>
> I have felt like the lamictal and/or the lithium has been making me feel more anxious and irritable. It's a different anxiety than the anxiety I experienced back when I used to get panic attacks though. This anxiety is more like an underlying anxiety...always in the background but it feels like it's masked over by something that keeps it from feeling like my more traditional anxiety. When I first started feeling this way it was weird because it felt like a "new" kind of anxiety/depression (I get the combo of the two). I think that the old depression/anxiety might be breaking through my meds and that the meds are just making the symptoms of the depression/anxiety a bit different. It's rather upsetting.
>
> I'm tempted to get off this stuff and get on some form of an Antidepressant cocktail. I've only tried Paxil and Lexapro... I'm feeling less convinced that AD's "aren't going to work" for me. I'm thinking that if got totally off the Lamictal/Lithium and I got on something like increasing my Lexapro back to 20mg and adding wellbutrin or effexor that might work. Or maybe I could do Lexapro, Zoloft, and a low dose of wellbutrin.
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Nathan,
> > I was on Lam and lithium for 1-1/2 years doing pretty well at 75mg until mixed state depression started breaking through (many life stresses contributed). Hoping to raise the dose to the 'therapeutic' 200, I started very slowly ramping up. At 125mg I started getting the 'itchies' but figured it was a delayed allergic reaction to our many cats. At 150mg the itching was intense and I started getting the twitchies and my skin felt on the verge of all over irritation. My mood was getting more anxious and irritable as well. Long story short, I eventually stopped lithium and lamictal because they were doing nothing for my increasing depression.
> >
> > A few months later I was on a completely different drug, one whose side effects were the Stevens Johnson rash. I got it and ended up in the hospital and very sick for over 5 weeks. Moral of the story is I very strongly suspect that lamictal sensitized me to this allergic reaction and the 'itchies' were the warning signs that an inflammatory condition was setting up in my body. I'm now sensitive to many drugs I never was before. I feel like wearing a T-shirt with the words 'Got Lamictal itchies? WARNING, WARNING!!!' Good news is that I feel much better off lithium and lamictal but getting off prescription psych meds was no walk in the park. - BarbaraCat
>
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 22:09:41
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal, posted by Nathan23 on May 20, 2004, at 12:46:04
Hi Nathan,
I sure can relate to the weird kind of anxiety and sometimes, like sac's email, I wonder if my depression, primarily godawful mixed states bipolar depression isn't really a severe anxiety disorder. I do well with a benzo soother but can't tolerate them for long.Your comment about 'background' anxiety is right on - always a flavor of tenseness, something bad about to happen. It's really in my mind, mainly fear about not being able to take whatever awful thing might happen. The thing is that it rarely ever happens and even when the worst has happened, I was able to handle it just fine. I'm really a very strong capable and gutsy person, but this habitual anxiety is wearing me down.
When I was on SSRI's and when they worked (Zoloft primarily), I didn't experience this kind of ultra-sensitivity. Of course, I didn't experience much sensitivity at all and this is a trait I rather like about myself - in moderation. My personality was alot different back then. It's harder now and I wish I could tone down the feeling volume, but I really do like myself alot more now even though it hurts more in every way.
I pretty much reached my limit, however, with the physical and mental pain and started taking St. John's Wort just yesterday, the Perika brand which is a good one. It worked pretty well for me about 8 years ago and I'm hoping it'll prevent a slide into depression, which I seem to be heading towards. Once I fall into that hole it's so hard to crawl out of and SJW can't handle a major slide. The side effect profile of SJW is mild so we'll see. I won't do SSRI's again and probably not any other prescription med. So if this doesn't work, I'll ride it out bareback until the undertow spits me out again. I'm getting pretty good at this but it's such a drag.
>
> I have felt like the lamictal and/or the lithium has been making me feel more anxious and irritable. It's a different anxiety than the anxiety I experienced back when I used to get panic attacks though. This anxiety is more like an underlying anxiety...always in the background but it feels like it's masked over by something that keeps it from feeling like my more traditional anxiety.
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 22:35:01
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 14:09:38
Hiya Katia,
> That's good news that you are doing well off of meds. If it hadn't been for me buying the house, restarting grad school, moving, etc. all that goes into it; I probably wouldn't have restarted meds. I am using them as support right now, but won't stay on them forever.
**That's great news about the house and school. Last time we chatted you were about to move in and start school. Keeping busy is a great as long as you're not struggling with an impending breakdown, eh? Probably a good thing you've got the med support right now until things are more steady state.
>
> How're you doing otherwise?**I go up and down. I'm really glad I'm off meds cause the down times are more quiet and manageable and not bezerk like they were before. But lately I've been struggling and feeling very apart from Life. My body is really hurting, like a constant fibro ache always going on in my mind and everywhere. I'm planning on going back to school for a few courses this summer -- I've got to do something to engage my time and mind. Just hope I don't crash and burn physically cause this fibro thing is a bitch and pulls the rug out on every long-term plan I make.
When I can manage to bring myself into the 'Now' ala Eckart Tolle, I can appreciate life for that moment. Then my mind drags me back to worry, gloom and pain. I guess that's where the spiritual practice comes in - practice. But it seems like I'm always trying, struggling to 'be here now' and just wish it would get easier. It's tempting to think my entire life is always like this, but I know it's not. I'm going to give St. John's Wort a try again for support. I recall from a past trial that the little plant was a gentle mood brightener and did well in keeping me from the skids. I'm not there yet and don't plan on sliding in.
So I'm really rooting for you and pray wonderful peaceful adventures for you w/out too many hypo-jaggies. Keep me posted. It always lifts me up to chat w/you. - BCat
Posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 23:16:26
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 22:35:01
**That's great news about the house and school. Last time we chatted you were about to move in and start school. Keeping busy is a great as long as you're not struggling with an impending breakdown, eh? Probably a good thing you've got the med support right now until things are more steady state.
>>I know - good news, but too stressful right now to enjoy that good news. impending breakdown is what caused me to go on Paxil. don't know if it's doing any damn good. At least I'm functioning, but very precariously. I'm having to play landlady to two housemates as well and housekeeper/manager; something I've never done before. Mowing the lawn? what's that? And this lawn was so immacuately manicured, already half the flowers have died even tho' I'm watering like crazy everyday. Heat waves...Also got to find FOUR clients by mid-June for this Life coaching program. I ain't ready!!!!! You can imagine all the issues that come up around that - anxiety, I'm no good, I'm stupid, what can I do to "help" anyone? etc. etc. AND WHEN? do I find the time? yikes.....
power of now, power of now, deep breath...**I go up and down. I'm really glad I'm off meds cause the down times are more quiet and manageable and not bezerk like they were before.
>>That's so interesting that your downs are more quiet and manageable w/o meds. I'm wondering about all these bipolar stuff. I've been reading a lot lately about Sensory Integration Disorder (SID or DSI) and also reading a book called "The Highly Sensitive Person" and god how I can relate to this more than the bipolar thing. I wonder if my bipolar thing is a symptom of SID/DSI. The Paxil and Trileptal help manage my overstimulated nervous system and quell the anxiety, at least I hope so, my anxiety is still really there. My immune system is down, I can tell because of a rare "cold sore" I get once every two years when I'm REALLY run down. I feel really tired a lot. Maybe Paxil? And dizziness and headaches. If you want to know more about DSI, let me know and I'll pass on some info. I've been on another chat group re: DSI and it's amazing how many other people have these "wierd" sensory sensitivites (like the honkers in yoga).
**But lately I've been struggling and feeling very apart from Life. My body is really hurting, like a constant fibro ache always going on in my mind and everywhere.
>>I'm sorry to hear that. I know about physical pain in the past month - severly pulled a shoulder drilling something and got sciatica painting and pulling off wallpaper. In the midst of my pain, I really thought about and had empathy for those, like you, who suffer with chronic physical pain. Not sure which is worse - mental or physical pain as they both make every second a challenging torture. Are there any meds you can take?
**I'm going to give St. John's Wort a try again for support. I recall from a past trial that the little plant was a gentle mood brightener and did well in keeping me from the skids. I'm not there yet and don't plan on sliding in.
>>I thought St. John's acted on serotonin like ADs and bipolars should stay away from it? anyway, if you had good experiences before, then you should probably be ok with it again.
* So I'm really rooting for you and pray wonderful peaceful adventures for you w/out too many hypo-jaggies. Keep me posted. It always lifts me up to chat w/you. - BCatThanks for the support Barbara. It always lifts me when I see your names on postings too.
Warmly,
Katia
>
Posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 23:26:23
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » Nathan23, posted by BarbaraCat on May 20, 2004, at 22:09:41
Ride it out bareback until the undertoe spits me out!
GREAT ANALOGY! I've definitely been there. That's what it feels like to emerge from a deep depression. Like you've just been spit out of a whirling mass of confusion and darkness and chaos and SPAT! out onto the beautiful and serene white sand beach like nothing ever happened.Anxiety and sensitivity. Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adultsid/. (I'm Kat on there) It all feels very interrelated.
I also feel I have a big anxiety disorder intermixed - or is it DSI or bipolar?????
As my pdoc said, the anxiety can manifest itself in different ways - through obsessional thinking, worrying, dread, etc.
Keep in touch! gotta go - head hurts!
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 21, 2004, at 19:51:01
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on May 20, 2004, at 23:16:26
>>Life coaching program. I ain't ready!!!!! You can imagine all the issues that come up around that - anxiety, I'm no good, I'm stupid, what can I do to "help" anyone? etc. etc. AND WHEN? do I find the time? yikes.....
**That is alot to bite off at once. Deadlines are hard!! - and being a landlady on top of it all! Well, you just have to find one client, that first one, and the rest will be gravy. You KNOW you're gonna be great at this so I wouldn't stress about that other stuff. Old tapes. You've been through alot and it's not everyone who can or wants to support and accompany another through those scary places, so you'll do fine. Oh, here are two wonderful books that might help: "The Places that Scare You" and "When Things Fall Apart" by Pema Chodron.
> >>That's so interesting that your downs are more quiet and manageable w/o meds. I'm wondering about all these bipolar stuff. I've been reading a lot lately about Sensory Integration Disorder (SID or DSI) and also reading a book called "The Highly Sensitive Person" and god how I can relate to this more than the bipolar thing. I wonder if my bipolar thing is a symptom of SID/DSI.
**This is the first I've heard of SID/DSI. I definitely want more info!! I got the forum url from your other email and will visit the site, but if you have anything else to share, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case).
I too wonder about the BP thing, that it's really an overamped nervous system and overreaction to stress. But I guess when you come down to it, what's the diff? It's all due to stress IMHO. I sure know that those godawful mixed states depressions are some wild chemical storms. Time will tell if being off meds makes a difference. I can go a long time with garden variety depression, but those screeching wailing banshee nightmare things I cannot take. I probably should have an anti-psychotic handy just in case cause those things are really scary and wear me down.
>>My immune system is down, I can tell because of a rare "cold sore" I get once every two years when I'm REALLY run down.
**I've got one of those pesky 'cold sores' that keep making the rounds on me lately. Sometimes I think (and have read in a number of sources) that much of what I/we deal with physically and emotionally are really pathogens. I could really sense a 'before and after' after I picked up some really weird bug in the late '80's at -- you'll love this -- a mud bath spa in Calistoga that eventually had health warrants against it.
>>I feel really tired a lot. Maybe Paxil?
**Could be. A friend recently upped her Paxil and is alot more tired and feeling swooshy.
>>Not sure which is worse - mental or physical pain as they both make every second a challenging torture. Are there any meds you can take?
**I'm not sure either. I think mental pain is worse but when I consider having a tooth drilled w/o novicaine I don't think so. There's really nothing that helps when I'm in the midst of a flare, which thankfully aren't so frequent as they were. I sometimes take hydrocodone but it's more to take my mind off things than anything and I don't like the constipation. Neurontin is supposed to help, but it really doesn't. The cyclical nature, the flu like aches and other fluey symptoms make me suspect it's viral. No one knows. I'm looking into Transfer Factor which is showing alot of promise for immune conditions (which fibro may or may not be), but it's expensive and you have to get the right kind that's targeted for the condition. I'm rapidly going broke from trying out all these wonder cures.
>
> >>I thought St. John's acted on serotonin like ADs and bipolars should stay away from it?**It's supposed to help with fibro symptoms and I could use a mood boost as well. My husband keeps an eye out for my frenzies, like let's clean out the garage and plant a small organic farm and buy out Home Depot and become a prophesying mystic dance fiend, and, and, and... - not that he can do much about it. I usually don't get it until after the fact. No, that's not true. I know I'm heading there when I start sobbing at the meat counters and lobster tanks in the supermarkets. Maybe I will ask for a zyprexa script. - Barbara
Posted by katia on May 22, 2004, at 14:51:14
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on May 21, 2004, at 19:51:01
A friend of mine is taking Zyprexa (or was). I saw him at a party two weeks ago and I thought "god he is acting very strange - soooo intense over the top not making sense looks aged, etc. He's always been a wild card, in and out of rehabs, arrested for drugs, always has something business like going on and is still successful regardless of his criminal/drug record. I asked his cousin, "what's wrong w/ ****? "Oh, didn't he tell you about his spiritual awakening of his heart chakra two weeks ago?" Uh oh. Oh boy.
Thirty minutes into the party, it hit me. "my God, **** is manic!". I need to ask him if he's ever considered that he might be bipolar. But self-disclosure is yet another characteristic of mania. And so during the party he announces, after having been asked if he talked to his father lately (just conversation stuff), he replies, "My Dad's just worried if I'm taking my meds! I apparently got this bipolar dx a couple weeks ago and I agreed to take this zylexa (zyprexa) stuff for ONE week and then stop to show them I'm not. I finally feel good after been depressed all my life and they're trying to medicate me! I've had a spiritual awakening and I don't need medication!" blah blah blah. It was classic. It was so classic that I questioned my own BP dx because this was a classic bipolar case. He wasn't sleeping without xanax and only little then even on zyprexa. he was drinking like a fish saying it helped calm him down.
Anyway, it was interesting to see such a classic case with regard to symptoms, behavior, denial etc.. I talked to him til the morning hours about my past year and dx. he's very adament about not taking meds, he quit Zyprexa and he said "see! I feel even better now w/o it! more energy, etc.". He's still swinging up and he's making not a lot of sense. I could see the faces of the people at the party when he was talking w/ them - strained, tense, wanting to get away, not understanding. It's awful to see and he doesn't realize and won't listen to me or anyone. The best thing I can do and have done is tell him "if it is bipolar, what goes up will come down and it's a scary transition and call me if you need to talk". But of course, he's just calling me to talk talk talk about everything and is exhausting me!anyway sorry to go on. But i was really curious why the dr. had him take zyprexa to start and not lithium?
Would you take zyprexa if you start to go into a mixed state? I still take Seroquel every night for sleep; not trying to give it up anytime soon.
It works! and i'm sleeping and can't go back to insomnia thank you very much!
Barb-go to that website and start there for info. That's all i have as well.
Keep in touch.
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 22, 2004, at 17:43:47
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on May 22, 2004, at 14:51:14
Wow, what a story! It hit me because I've been there and done that. The mania in me takes a very intense and mystical flavor. I look at myself in the mirror and my eyes look wild and dilated and I feel pressured to explain what I'm 'sensing' about people and events. It becomes very electrically charged. The weird dark energy is very palpable and so is the incredible Light. This is difficult for others who aren't in my head space and just wanna have a normal good old time. It's frustrating as hell for me because I end up feeling misunderstood and alone and just trying to understand, explain myself and feel included in an alien and hostile world. The weird thing is that I become very opened and attuned to very powerful psychic phenomena and talents that usually lie dormant. A window opens up and the chaos is mixed with incredible focus and soaring insights. But this is a typical boring trait with bipolars, right?
But not so fast... the voices, hallucinations and psychic phenomena also look alot like classic delusional schizoprehia. Which would be fine with me and explain alot EXCEPT for the fact that most of the 'delusions' are remarkably accurate and not delusions at all. This schizoid-ness is what makes me consider an anti-psychotic. But the whole complex is so unpredictable - something that 'visits' me from time to time and then leaves. It's cyclic nature suggests bipolar and the psychosis puts it into the mixed states bag. But I tell ye, I was getting these 'spells' with potent bipolar meds, so it's beyond my ken what it is or what to do. Yes, I'd probably consider Seroquel as the next step if I started feeling a mixed state coming on, mainly for the sleep.
I'm hoping the St. John's and healthy lifestyle and detoxing from mercury will build my strength, trust and give courage to learn the lessons but NOT allow the fear to beat me down. For me, it comes down to having enough energy and finding a fulfilling way to use it. Love and support to us all in this long strange trip we're on. - Barbara
> A friend of mine is taking Zyprexa (or was). I saw him at a party two weeks ago and I thought "god he is acting very strange - soooo intense over the top not making sense looks aged, etc. He's always been a wild card, in and out of rehabs, arrested for drugs, always has something business like going on and is still successful regardless of his criminal/drug record. I asked his cousin, "what's wrong w/ ****? "Oh, didn't he tell you about his spiritual awakening of his heart chakra two weeks ago?" Uh oh. Oh boy.
>
> Thirty minutes into the party, it hit me. "my God, **** is manic!". I need to ask him if he's ever considered that he might be bipolar. But self-disclosure is yet another characteristic of mania. And so during the party he announces, after having been asked if he talked to his father lately (just conversation stuff), he replies, "My Dad's just worried if I'm taking my meds! I apparently got this bipolar dx a couple weeks ago and I agreed to take this zylexa (zyprexa) stuff for ONE week and then stop to show them I'm not. I finally feel good after been depressed all my life and they're trying to medicate me! I've had a spiritual awakening and I don't need medication!" blah blah blah. It was classic. It was so classic that I questioned my own BP dx because this was a classic bipolar case. He wasn't sleeping without xanax and only little then even on zyprexa. he was drinking like a fish saying it helped calm him down.
> Anyway, it was interesting to see such a classic case with regard to symptoms, behavior, denial etc.. I talked to him til the morning hours about my past year and dx. he's very adament about not taking meds, he quit Zyprexa and he said "see! I feel even better now w/o it! more energy, etc.". He's still swinging up and he's making not a lot of sense. I could see the faces of the people at the party when he was talking w/ them - strained, tense, wanting to get away, not understanding. It's awful to see and he doesn't realize and won't listen to me or anyone. The best thing I can do and have done is tell him "if it is bipolar, what goes up will come down and it's a scary transition and call me if you need to talk". But of course, he's just calling me to talk talk talk about everything and is exhausting me!
>
> anyway sorry to go on. But i was really curious why the dr. had him take zyprexa to start and not lithium?
> Would you take zyprexa if you start to go into a mixed state? I still take Seroquel every night for sleep; not trying to give it up anytime soon.
> It works! and i'm sleeping and can't go back to insomnia thank you very much!
> Barb-go to that website and start there for info. That's all i have as well.
> Keep in touch.
> Katia
Posted by katia on May 22, 2004, at 18:46:51
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on May 22, 2004, at 17:43:47
Yes, the frustrating lonely part of it is real. I had a real "heart to heart" with him that night and he said that no one understands him, but it's very real and just because people don't get it and understand him doesn't mean it's bipolar. He is very alone. I know people are avoiding him, he told me. He said when I call you ARE you going to answer the phone when you see it's me? Other people have told me to call them if I need to , but don't pick up the phone, etc...
He thinks he is *just* misunderstood. And he is. People don't understand mania. But he doesn't understand that it also IS mania. It even took me 30 minutes of talking to him and shaking my head thinking "he's acting so strange I don't want to be around him" before it occured to me - MANIC!
INteresting to see how this all plays out. I tried convincing him of Lithium for the anti-aging/brain regenerating qualities as he's in to stuff like that. But if I try and persuade at all, he wants to cut off the conversation and questions whether we can be friends because he doesn't want to hear this "nonsense" about medication and his need for it from a friend.I've never seen such a classic case. I've been reading about it over the past year. I'm definitely NOT like that. I have flavors of it and small tendencies , i.e. BPII, but that to that degree has never been me.
But then again, it's so hard to remember and sort out what's me and what's the BP. I've had powerful mystical experiences too.
All the best-
Katia
p.s. have you checked that other website out?
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 23, 2004, at 13:02:01
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on May 22, 2004, at 18:46:51
Has your friend been getting worse over the last year or this is the normal cycle for him? It sounds like there's a definite biochemical problem, perhaps food allergies, something that's affecting his ability to reason and further destabilizing him.
Something I've seen over and over in people who are naive to their mood disorders is that they are unprepared for really bad times. There hasn't been enough self-examination or compelling need otherwise to educate themselves. It's about making hay when the sun is shining and putting those ducks in order for a rainy day and blah blah. Then when the illnes hits and reasoning goes out the window, at least there's something in place to call upon to remind oneself - 'oh yeah, I recognize this and need extra help right now'. It's like practicing anything or exercising - pumping 'sanity muscles' when you can. Sounds like his sanity muscles are flabby. It's impossible to reason with someone who has lost their clear reasoning ability and may also be physically exhausted.
I find that as long as I'm not drinking I can usually pick up cues from my environment and either adapt or shield myself and withdraw from further aggravation. If I get into a weird place and my thinking gets more muddled, there's nothing I can do. Alcohol becomes my manic rocket engine fuel. It takes over and that's when I do things I later regret. As I look back over really embarrassing dumb-ass things I've done, alcohol or other brain inflaming substances were always involved. It's like this little devil jumps in and just loves to cause trouble. 'Feeding the pain body' that Eckhart Tolle talks about.
It sounds like your friend needs some kind of intervention because he's in deep pain but doesn't have the ability to sort things out and make proper decisions. I can't imagine what that would look like because it's not up to you to take this one on for him. You end up in the position of a 'savior' for that person and a dumping ground for their projections. It can very draining to be around someone who is in a very trying place but refuses to acknowledge their own accountability or necessity to do whatever it takes. Perhaps he has a family member or priest, someone who's willing to take on the responsibility of finding help for him. Proably the only helpful thing you can do for him is help him locate this person or agency since he seems to trust you. But having a person latch on to you when they can't or won't help themselves becomes parasitic.
I had a friend like that who drove everyone away, mainly because of her constant blaming and bitterness about how her life sucked. She soured every event, every gathering, by spewing out this black-hole energy. Yes, she ran around trying everything to get better but was so invested in being right and so addicted to her rage and refusal to look at her own stuff that even her therapist called me (she'd put me down as her 'emergency contact') in desperation and eventually told her he could not help someone who refused to help themselves. She was calling me at all hours and badly needed help but refused to work with it. Even knowing how horrible and lonely it can be, I had to pull away because her sickness was being dumped onto me and sucking me dry. A true psychic vampire. I wonder what's become of her. I believe it would have to take bringing her down to her knees to unravel that hard knot of hatred and obstinancy.
I have gone to the yahoo groups site and am waiting to get an email back with my membership info for the forum. I need to rattle their cage again. I've been looking at the sensitiveperson.com website and finding it very interesting and helpful. Yep, I recognize moi in those pages. If we could channel and focus this stuff and move beyond the highly sensitive pain part, Yowza! Take care, galpal. - Barbara
> Yes, the frustrating lonely part of it is real. I had a real "heart to heart" with him that night and he said that no one understands him, but it's very real and just because people don't get it and understand him doesn't mean it's bipolar. He is very alone. I know people are avoiding him, he told me. He said when I call you ARE you going to answer the phone when you see it's me? Other people have told me to call them if I need to , but don't pick up the phone, etc...
> He thinks he is *just* misunderstood. And he is. People don't understand mania. But he doesn't understand that it also IS mania. It even took me 30 minutes of talking to him and shaking my head thinking "he's acting so strange I don't want to be around him" before it occured to me - MANIC!
> INteresting to see how this all plays out. I tried convincing him of Lithium for the anti-aging/brain regenerating qualities as he's in to stuff like that. But if I try and persuade at all, he wants to cut off the conversation and questions whether we can be friends because he doesn't want to hear this "nonsense" about medication and his need for it from a friend.
>
> I've never seen such a classic case. I've been reading about it over the past year. I'm definitely NOT like that. I have flavors of it and small tendencies , i.e. BPII, but that to that degree has never been me.
>
> But then again, it's so hard to remember and sort out what's me and what's the BP. I've had powerful mystical experiences too.
> All the best-
> Katia
> p.s. have you checked that other website out?
Posted by katia on May 23, 2004, at 14:36:45
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on May 23, 2004, at 13:02:01
Hi Barbara,
He's just manic and that's why he can't reason. He's in love with the mania. He feels GREAT and is getting tons done w/ work. I think he's starting to come around to the fact that this COULD be mania; but FORGET about medicating it. It's his first real manic episode. he's just been dxed. He has been depressed all of his life, he says. he's 33. So he is just beginning the game. As they say, it's sometimes hard to dx because bipolars don't seek out help when their manic, only depressed. He will eventually crash. He probably has to just go thru' the ride a few times to get it, that the highs aren't worth the lows. His father took him to get evaluated, brain scan and so forth because of his bizarre behavior. So family is definitely there for him.
Funny that you mention Tolle, he is reading that right now too! It is a great book. I read it a couple of years ago when I was in the midst of my rock bottom hell. I listened to the tapes rather, normally at 4am when sleep wasn't an option.
Thanks for your advice. I'm definitely taking care of myself in relation to him. I don't have to time to be a caregiver to toxic mania anyway.
re: other website. I think you can still peruse the other postings while waiting for your email. Whatis this other website about sensitive people?
Keep in touch!
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 24, 2004, at 0:45:22
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on May 23, 2004, at 14:36:45
Toxic mania. Very apt. Those who haven't been there think of mania in such romantic terms - a brilliant nutty Lord Byron adventure. I'd love to bottle hypomania but toxic mania is so un-fun for everyone - E.A. Poe on bad acid. Everyone has their path to follow and karma to reap but I hope he doesn't crash and burn too badly. World doesn't need any more walking wounded. Fortunate he's got family there for him.
> Funny that you mention Tolle, he is reading that right now too! It is a great book. I read it a couple of years ago when I was in the midst of my rock bottom hell. I listened to the tapes rather, normally at 4am when sleep wasn't an option.
**"Liberating the Consciousness and Dealing with the Pain Body" is maybe the same tape you listened to. I got alot out of that one, how the pain body needs melodrama and frantic energy as its favorite food and will manufacture nasty events to get it. The ego in other words. I've listened to it probably 6-7 times and again just recently. Its like a whole new talk each time, perfect for what's going on. Very soothing. If you still have the tapes, be interesting to check'em out again.
About the hell you were in. You mentioned you had some terrible experiences after Scotland that led to some dark times. Was this a first time trigger or had it been brewing in other forms?
> re: other website. I think you can still peruse the other postings while waiting for your email. Whatis this other website about sensitive people?
**Funny you should ask. I thought you were the one who turned me onto it. But maybe it was a link from the DSI website. Its very good. Here ya go:
http://www.sensitiveperson.com/
Thanks for introducing me to this new way of looking at things. I like 'highly sensitive person' so much better than the other labels. It gives a sense of hope and even pride ("Yo, I'm not weird, I'm 'highly sensitive' and you should be so lucky!").
BTW, are you still working in the wine restaurant? Probably not with all the other stuff going on. At least I hope not with all the other stuff going on!
> Keep in touch!
**You betcha. Keep me posted about your friend. He's now officially on my prayer list. Here's to God helping those who are willing to help themselves. - Barbara
Posted by katia on May 24, 2004, at 2:49:15
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on May 24, 2004, at 0:45:22
>>Very soothing. If you still have the tapes, be interesting to check'em out again.
**Yes, I will when I unpack everything someday soon.
> About the hell you were in. You mentioned you had some terrible experiences after Scotland that led to some dark times. Was this a first time trigger or had it been brewing in other forms?
Oh boy. Long story. Let's just say that my cycles became cyclical (redunant I know); more and more obvious every time and the same circumstances happening each time. But everything being wayyyy more intense each time. So I guess you could say this past time was my rock bottom b/c it was worse because "here we go again, here again when I thought I'd evolved from here" and b/c the crashes get harder as we age I think. (until treatment is implemented). I only sought out a dx and treatment just after this time. I lived in the dark for a long time. Blind to my patterns and cycles. In retrospect, I would have mainly dysthymia, hypomania, disasterous results from (normally an affair and then pregnancy) dealing with the pregnancy (and I say this b/c I know you in cyber terms at least, it was the end of the world for me everytime), and the inevitable crash HARD into a MAJOR depression, and stay there for a good year and then lifts a bit, mild depression, then zippity do da, zippity day, my ole my what a wonderful day! And then crash....but the despair just got worse each time and the suicidal tendencies became greater and the self-inflicting harm got worse. In retrospect, I can actually laugh at how crazy I was in Scotland. I was a classic "nutter".
But enough of that! So in short, yes, I've dealt with this all my life, with it getting progressively worse where I finally couldn't ignore it anymore and sought out help.
and you? How long ago did you seek out help for meds for the first time?> **Funny you should ask. I thought you were the one who turned me onto it. But maybe it was a link from the DSI website. Its very good. Here ya go:
I was. I just didn't know the sensitive website.
> Thanks for introducing me to this new way of looking at things. I like 'highly sensitive person' so much better than the other labels. It gives a sense of hope and even pride ("Yo, I'm not weird, I'm 'highly sensitive' and you should be so lucky!").me too. The thing that makes sense to me is meds are addressing and supporting my symptoms of that. And that's ok for me.
> BTW, are you still working in the wine restaurant? Probably not with all the other stuff going on. At least I hope not with all the other stuff going on!YOu know!? I am. And I"m working TWO jobs now as well! I've been so crazy busy. But I"m doing ok relatively speaking. I've changed soooo much in the past four or so months. I feel like I'm coming into my own finally. It's hard and I feel scared, but it's good. I am on meds, but that's ok. It's my support.
> **You betcha. Keep me posted about your friend. He's now officially on my prayer list. Here's to God helping those who are willing to help themselves. - Barbara
I'm sure he'd appreciate that Barbara. Thanks.
He's family is amazing BTW. I lived w/ his Mom and DAd for two years about five years ago in petaluma on a farm. It was wonderful. I'm best friends now w/ his cousin as well. similar travel experiences.If you're ever in Cal. we should meet up.
My thoughts are with you.
Love,
Katia
Posted by BarbaraCat on May 26, 2004, at 14:37:36
In reply to Re: New to Board: Frustrated with Lamictal » BarbaraCat, posted by katia on May 24, 2004, at 2:49:15
HI Katia,
> and you? How long ago did you seek out help for meds for the first time?**I remember periods of weird feelings of sadness and gloom starting at around 10 but my childhood was very difficult because my father was severely mood disordered and was alternately depressed/raging. PLUS toxic Catholicism (from which one never entirely recovers). So I figured my moods were understandable psychological problems given my early conditioning (which they were of course, but not entirely). I was able to maintaine life, school, work, etc., but nothing much helped the severe incapacitating spells that hit now and then. Long term but infrequent cycling with good periods in between. Probably my earliest medication was lots of self-medicating with meth in my late teens. Made me feel better but I know it caused some major brain miswiring. Plus some horrific acid trips taught me how to be nightmare psychotic. No, my druggy hippie daze were not good for my growing brain with my family history. I started in therapy in early 20's and tried Elavil during this time but hated the side effects and was mainly limping along on nothing.
In my early 30's during an awful episode I found a good psychiatrist who prescribed a TCA, Surmontil, and I was amazed at how it pulled me out of a suicidal depression within a few weeks. I then went on to Trazadone which was the new kid on the block - don't remember why I switched because the TCA was working pretty well but I think it started pooping out, plus my shrink retired and I got a 'new school' shrink. Trazadone helped the anxiety part but I was left with a lethargic dysthymia and didn't like the morning tiredness. Switched briefly to Prozac when it first came out but it was too activating - then Zoloft in 1986. It worked pretty well for a few years but the severe depression would always break through and my dose would increase until I was up to 300mg which I think was way too high for a long-term course.
Of course, life doesn't stop and I also had my share of very traumatic incidents throughout my entire life including two near-fatal accidents, a stillbirth, substance abuses, financial, job, and relationship problems, etc. that added to the anxiety level. Soul-less stressful jobs as well, working long hours in more and more demanding positions in high-tech companies (which SUCKED). Arrrghh! Truly challenging life circumstances that went on and on and got more and more complicated with every year. Stress piled upon stress with a growing sense of hopelessness about my ability or desire to cope in a harsh hostile world. I think a person can go through just about anything as long as there's even a little hope. But I had very little, felt unfixable and unlovable. I believe it was this wit's-end hopeless despair that caused things to eventually break.
By mid-90's I was starting to unravel but still maintaining. I'd always had good energy and vitality except for the 'nutter' times, but I think perimenopause started the downhill physical trend, sleeplessness which was always a problem become more so, and the mixed states stuff was becoming more frequent. And let's not forget the nightly coupla glasses of D swampwater to cope! I was shuffling around trying to find a good pdoc but all anyone thought to do was to try another SSRI med and give higher doses when it pooped. I'd stop meds every so often, do OK, then somthing destablizing would happen and I'd get scared enough to try again. My pattern had been healthy stretches and highly functional hypomanias with a crash thrown in now and then, but the panicked mixed states were taking over and eventually stayed pretty constant.
Then in 1999 I went under and had a breakdown and spent 2 weeks in a psych unit. My health really started suffering - I felt toxic and wired and sick - with the eventual fibromyalgia dx. No one can live in that exhausting state for long and something had to break down, as in multiple systems pain/fatigue syndrome that gets called fibromyalgia. I became convinced that there was something off physically and not just the typical depression neurochemicals 'cause what I had wasn't typical 'depression' but something else. I'd been on-top of everything it could possibly be with many doctors - thyroid, candida, epstein-barr, hypoglycemia, lyme disease, mycoplasma, etc., etc. On and on but no remedy ever 'took'. Also tried Zyprexa but it made things worse.
I had to stop working in 2001 and spend alot of time trying to learn and piece things together, follow threads. It was my idea and not any pdoc's that SSRI's didn't seem to be doing me much good, and given what was now known about SSRI's and bipolar and the fact I'd had some whopper hypomanias, perhaps I was Bipolar? I never considered myself bipolar mainly because I'd had a misinformed idea of 'mania'. It didn't occur to me that my father and his family's dysfunction now looks alot like bipolar mixed states. Makes me wonder how things would have evolved had I had a good mood stabilizer instead of only high-dose SSRI's early on.
So, the experiment with lithium and Remeron, then lithium and lamictal began, was pretty good for a time but quit working and lithium exacerbated the hypothyroid. Close but no cigar.
Probably the most successful of my meds were the TCA's but the side effects were intolerable. I suspect our current arsenal of psych meds, no matter the type, dosage or combinations, are not the answer for me and only create additional physical burdens. Since January I'm off everything (even quit recent St. John's Wort trial which was started to spin me into that ol' agitated feeling). I occasionally take Neurontin which helps if I don't take it consistently. Occasional anti-anxiety meds, nutrition, exercise when I can do it, and lifestyle things that calm my nervous system seem to be the keys. Right now I'm concentrating on getting out the mercury (my lab levels were reallly high and that's GOT to be contributing - mad as a hatter).
So my quest is now to answer: What's going on upstream that's keeping this brain/body malfunction locked in? Addressing the symptoms hasn't worked for me. So here I am, barenaked in the psych med department, doing all I can to learn and assist Mama Nature in getting me healthy. Probably the greatest healing has been learning to tolerate and honor the impacted grief and fear that needed to emerge - which it did bigtime this past Winter. Letting it flow up and out transformed alot of that despair and taken away much of the stuck toxicity. Learning to trust that I'm not 'wrong' to feel such pain and proably won't die from it until it inevitably transforms (bless Eckhart Tolle!) has probably been the greatest medicine so far and may end up being worth the getting there. But first the ol' bod had to get alot stronger cause detoxing from all that stuff that wasn't working was a wild ride! And of course, haaving a best friend husband - he surely has his own toxic stuff he's working through, but he and our furry ones have been my rock. I'm amazed he's stuck it through with me.
Well, that was interesting. I think I got more puzzle pieces in the process of recalling all that.
>
> If you're ever in Cal. we should meet up.**Ohh, that would be a hoot! We'll have to make it so.
Posted by katia on May 26, 2004, at 16:36:58
In reply to My med story » katia, posted by BarbaraCat on May 26, 2004, at 14:37:36
Hi Barb,
When first starting to read your first paragraph, I was a little confused as to if I'd written that earilier or if that was you! Such similarities. (Depression starting at 10/11 - and a Catholic upbringing). Altho' my father wasn't mixed and rageful (only ocassional temper tantrums), I think he's dythymic for sure w/ a severe sleep disorder. Love him to death though.Thanks for your story. While reading it, it just reminded me that we are always in process, hopefully moving towards more and more awareness and "enlightenment" in the process, like a spiral just moving upward. "Been here and here I am again, but at a higher level sort of thing".
sounds like you're giving your body what it needs. A break from dxes and meds. Sometimes we have to start from ground zero with a clean slate in order to sort out what's what.So the St. John's spun you out agitated-wise?
I wonder about that. Like if it confirms more of your BP dx?
Keep doing what you're doing; it seems to be working and making you well. Furry critters are magical wonder healers.
I've recently adopted my new next-door neighbors neglected and (previously abused by someone else) 8 yr. old black male Pit Bull! I'd never have guessed that this would've ever happened. but we are so in love and he's given me joy and love and an outlet to get out of my head and give to someone else. I'm a mother now! I always had the misconception of Pitbulls. but he is so wonderfully sweet, playful, humorous, funny mannerisms and a big ball of energy - very mindful and wants to please. That's why they get into trouble with the fights. They are a breed that wants to please and bad owners ask them to do these things and they do it.I'm feeling pretty well. a little exhausted and busy, but possibly found the righ med cocktail (in conjunction with everything else I've been doing). 450mg Trileptal; 6.5 mg of Paxil; 20mg of seroquel. and of course the Carlson's Fish Oil; which I just reduced in half to 6mg from 12mg. I'd been having chronic diahhrea for months and maybe it's correlated with (lots of things) but with an increase in fishoil? who knows. it seems to be working. My bowel movements are getting back to normal. (that you'd like to know ;-)
take care-
Katia
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