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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ant-rock on May 21, 2003, at 16:29:08
I was hoping one (or anyone) of you could let me know how your ECT treatments are going.
I am cautiously considering doing ECT for my treatment resistant depression, and would greatly appreciate some "real life" experiences with ECT.
Thanks to anyone who could reply.
Anthony
Posted by Merci on May 21, 2003, at 20:08:26
In reply to Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT?, posted by ant-rock on May 21, 2003, at 16:29:08
.After 13 years and 20+ antidepressants (in countless combinations), I finally decided to give ECT a try. I had 3 unilateral sessions last week and have had 2 bilateral sessions this week. I didn't feel any results from last week's unilateral sessions but am starting to feel SOMETHING this week - I suppose I'd best describe it as a slow lifting of the dark, dark mood that has clouded every aspect of my life. No miracles yet, but I'm going to stick with it.
.I have an unusually strong memory, in terms of past events (from 10, 20 or 30 years ago) but I am having some memory difficulties this week. I am forgetting things that happen within a few hours of a session, though I can sometimes remember details if I am reminded. There is some stuff that is just meant to be forgotten, though. For example, my mother brought me to Monday's session and just relayed to me that after my session, I INSISTED that she go to the cafeteria and get me some fruity muffins. I remember no such thing. So far all the things I don't remember are of very little consequence.
.The process itself is not bad. The worst part for me is having an i.v. line started; after that, I'm asleep very quickly.
.I guess to summarize, for the first time in a very long while I am actually feeling a bit hopeful - maybe it is going to take something this serious? harsh? to break through my treatment-resistant depression. If your depression is serious enough to even warrant the consideration of ECT, I would consider it seriously.
.I'd have no problem keeping you posted as my treatment progresses - I don't know how many total sessions are planned. Please, if you have more specific questions, feel free to ask. I would love to think that my experience could actually help someone else!
- Merci
Posted by SLS on May 21, 2003, at 21:22:39
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » ant-rock, posted by Merci on May 21, 2003, at 20:08:26
> I would love to think that my experience could actually help someone else!
It has, merci beaucoup.
- Scott
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2003, at 9:06:46
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » ant-rock, posted by Merci on May 21, 2003, at 20:08:26
As many people are very wary of this
treatment, and perhaps you too may have
considered it as a last resort, i think
you should be congratulated for courage.
I hope you do recover from your depression
indefinitely.I would like to know where the ECT was performed
though of course that may be confidential.
I really was under the impression that it
was being phased out of most large hospitals,
after reading the "partisan" groups such as
David Oaks' Support Coalition International.Frankly, the argument that "we do not know how
it works" does not carry much weight against
a treatment, as lithium also gets the same
analysis from psychopharmacologists, as well
as Remeron for that matter. So, ECT should
not be surprising - if it works FOR YOU that is what
is important.good wishes for a continued recovery,
Squiggles
Posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 14:59:26
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » Merci, posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2003, at 9:06:46
Thank you, Squiggles!
The first time ECT was suggested to me I was horrified (about 8 years ago, at age 23). I did, and do, consider it a very last resort. Depression has never gone away for me, though at times it has seemingly lessened its grip, momentarily. Last fall my depression grew so bad that I withdrew from my adult life for the 3rd time since age 19. I tried a few more combinations of drugs but to no avail. So, here I am, about to have ECT treatment #6 tomorrow.
It doesn't particularly bother me that we don't know exactly how ECT works - as you point out, the same argument can be made for a number of different drugs. I know that the drugs DON'T work - I hope that the ECT will.
I live in New Hampshire, where several larger hospitals perform ECT. I think I was given a choice of 3 or 4 hospitals. I will be receiving at least 9 treatments and would be happy (is that the right word?) to continue posting my experiences. I hope that everyone finds what works for them. Be well.
Merci
Posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 15:08:33
In reply to Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT?, posted by ant-rock on May 21, 2003, at 16:29:08
Anthony,
Are you looking for a more practical approach to ECT, like the actual procedure? I can talk through a typical ECT treatment session to give you an idea of what it is like - if you're interested in hearing something like that, just post and let me know.
Merci
Posted by Jack Smith on May 22, 2003, at 15:18:00
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT?, posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 14:59:26
> It doesn't particularly bother me that we don't know exactly how ECT works - as you point out, the same argument can be made for a number of different drugs. I know that the drugs DON'T work - I hope that the ECT will.Very good point! I am curious--are you still working during your ect treatments? Does anyone think that would be possible? I am nowhere near contemplating it but just want to know.
JACK
Posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 15:56:49
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » Merci, posted by Jack Smith on May 22, 2003, at 15:18:00
I dropped out of grad. school in Novemeber and have been living on money from odd jobs and student loans. I am not working during ECT treatments, nor can I imagine doing so. I suppose it would depend on the job - my job before grad. school was teaching Middle School Special Education, and I certainly think that one needs to be utterly and entirely focused in order to perform that job!
I would really, really like to go back to school this fall - if the ECT proves to be successful, that's my plan. I'll be starting my second year of a 3 year program; I don't anticipate having a hard time finding a part-time job where I live for either this summer or during the school year.
Right now I have ECT M-W-F and have been staying with my retired parents during the week. One of my parents goes with me to the hospital so that they can wait in the waiting area and then drive me home; I'm not really in any condition to drive home after ECT.
Posted by Squiggles on May 22, 2003, at 15:59:53
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT?, posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 15:56:49
If you feel OK after a certain number
of ECT sessions, do you have the option
to ask them to stop and resume treatment
if depression comes again? Or are you
comitted to a set number?
Squiggles
Posted by ant-rock on May 22, 2003, at 17:12:49
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT?, posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 15:08:33
At this point Merci,
I really don't care what the procedure entails, but was more concerned about the side-effects.
A big question I have is: If I was driven to work after the procedure, could I function well enough to work that same day?I want to thank you Merci for taking the time to share your personal story with me. It really means a lot to me.
It would be so helpful if you could continue filling me in on your progress.
I've lost so much to this illness, I could really use a large dose of hope.Thanks again,
Anthony
Posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 19:26:40
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » Merci, posted by ant-rock on May 22, 2003, at 17:12:49
Hi Anthony,
Depending on what it is, I think there's a good chance that you could do your job after a treatment session (though I doubt you would find a doctor who would agree). Out of the 5 sessions that I've had, I've felt relatively functional after 4 sessions: alert, hungry, chatty...although after one session I was completely wiped out and slept the entire ride home (1 hour) and then some. For as long as I can remember, though, lack of sleep has gone hand in hand with my depression, so it is hard to say for sure what wiped me out - the treatment or lack of sleep in general.
I do sometimes feel a little bit dizzy and/or lightheaded after the treatments. Finally, I must mention the forgetfulness. I usually have a wicked sharp memory, but ECT is playing some tricks on me. Sometimes I find myself unable to speak the right word (it's on the tip of my tongue!) - and, there have been a few times when I simply don't remember entire conversations that I've had with people close to me (I can recall some conversations when I'm reminded, kind of like after a night of heavy imbibing, but not always - some conversations are seemingly gone forever). I'm also told that I have a habit of repeating myself, not remembering that I've JUST said something. It's an odd sensation.
I don't know what you do for work, and whether your not operating at 100% would be cause for any worries of liability, but I guess my suggestion would be that if you decide to go this route, at least take the first day JUST for yourself.
Of course I won't be able to say for sure whether ECT has worked until it is over - but the fact that I'm able to add this much to this forum (after 5 ECT sessions) is phenomenal to me. I don't ever picture my life as simply sunshine and daydreams, but until I started ECT I also didn't picture it as having any worth at all. I'm astonished that you, and others are learning through my experience - please keep reading and writing if you want to know more.
It took me years to even consider ECT - when I finally decided, it didn't feel like I had anything left to lose. The fact that you use the word "hope" in the end of your message is so significant - for the first time in years, dare I say it, I feel some hope. I have a session tomorrow morning - I'll give a report when I get home.
Be well Anthony, and everyone reading this.
Merci
Posted by Jack Smith on May 22, 2003, at 20:22:25
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » ant-rock, posted by Merci on May 22, 2003, at 19:26:40
> The fact that you use the word "hope" in the end of your message is so significant - for the first time in years, dare I say it, I feel some hope.
Sounds like it is having some effect on you. By the way, why did you switch to bilaterals? Have you noticed any differences between the two?
Also, what medications are you going to go on after ECT?
JACK
Posted by Eggy on May 22, 2003, at 23:33:17
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » Merci, posted by Jack Smith on May 22, 2003, at 20:22:25
Out of all the threads so far this has to be the most uplifting. Ive battled depression so hard and long that I recently have been considering giving up, which is hard to say and probably not easy for fellow depressives to hear. I never considered ECT. I always thought it was just too...I don't know...out of the question. It never really crossed my mind as an option. But now after reading this I now realize I may have a chance... a choice. What do I have to lose...as one of you said in a post above? The choice I was considering I would lose seeing my 3 little kids grow up. But now I do have a choice and I am going to seriously consider it. I sit here with tears in my eyes now that you all made me see that it's not to late. I haven't lost the fight. Maybe I do have the chance to be "me" again.
One little website...one small thread...may have just saved a life!!
Posted by Merci on May 23, 2003, at 11:26:41
In reply to Re: thanks for this thread, posted by Eggy on May 22, 2003, at 23:33:17
Eggy, and all,
I just got back from ECT session #6. Reporting on my progress has been therapeutic for me - and I can't tell you how much it means to hear that it might be helping others!
When ECT was first suggested to me, it was suggested in a very irresponsible way and it scared the **** out of me. After living with depression, though, year after year, medication after medication, I decided to take the suggestion and at least do some research on ECT. To put it bluntly, I got to the point during the last year where, I hate to sound cliche, but it was "do or die." In my mind, ECT was always the last resort. So what? I guess the way that I figure it, is, that if it's the last resort to dying, it might be worth doing.
My treatments are not too bad - I arrive at the hospital at 6:30 a.m. and am done before 8:30 a.m. About half of the time I have a headache after treatment, which goes away with tylenol. For some reason the anesthesia makes me very thirsty. The i.v. needle hurts going in (I'm a wimp when it comes to puncture wounds) and the anesthesia stings a little as it goes in (but you fall asleep really soon). I think I start waking up around 8:00, feeling pretty groggy, but I'm ready to leave in about half an hour.
Of course everyone's reaction is different, and my reaction has been different on different days. Today, my mother and I went grocery shopping and then made a quick trip to the mall. Now I'm here typing this. I'll probably make a bunch of phone calls this afternoon - I'm feeling highly functional today.
Certainly, there are probably people who would not be good candidates for ECT. I can only ask that if you've lost all other hope, please give it a thought and a little research. I actually can't believe that I am the one sitting here and typing, sounding so hopeful. I truly thought I would be gone from this world before I felt any hope at all. The grad. school I dropped out of just sent me a list of classes for fall, and I'm actually looking at them, trying to figure out a schedule!
The latest antidepressant that I've been on is Nardil 90 mg. I've been on it for about 6 months and honestly don't think it's been too helpful. My doctor and I haven't discussed what the next pharmacological step will be, after ECT. First things first, I suppose.
I never thought I would hear myself say this, but at this point, I believe that the answer/treatment is out there for everyone. Keep looking. Ask me more questions. Give those kids a big kiss!
Posted by Eggy on May 24, 2003, at 12:49:47
In reply to Re: thanks for this thread » Eggy, posted by Merci on May 23, 2003, at 11:26:41
Merci...Thanks so much for another uplifting message. I already talked to my husband about ECT and he says he will support any decision I decide and he is ready for any positive change also. He has stuck with me for years and been 100% supportive. I am looking into ECT now only for the benefits of myself (at this point I only think of myself) but I cannot help but think how much it will positively effect my family. I wonder maybe if someday will I be able to actually go to the store by myself? Weird...I haven't thought this far ahead for a long time!
Posted by Merci on May 24, 2003, at 14:16:42
In reply to Re: thanks for this thread, posted by Eggy on May 24, 2003, at 12:49:47
Eggy,
Once again, I am so glad to know that my words have touched you and I'm so glad to hear that you have someone who supports you 100%. I had been thinking about ECT for quite some time and my doctor finally talked me into having a consultation with an ECT program specialist. That was about a month ago; I've now had 2 weeks (6 sessions) of ECT. As I start to feel better, sleep better and actually think about making plans for the future (going back to school), I sometimes wish that I had started this whole process much earlier. But, it's enough for me to know that by undergoing ECT now and sharing my experience, others (like you) are gaining from my experience. I know that ECT is starting to work - I'm not sure these posts even sound like me - they're so positive! Be well, whatever your decision. Keep us posted.
Merci
Posted by dave1 on May 24, 2003, at 14:18:02
In reply to Re: Oldschool / Mags..... OR anyone on ECT? » Merci, posted by ant-rock on May 22, 2003, at 17:12:49
Hi,
I think you would have trouble with any job because you have to sleep off the anesthesia during the day after the procedure. I really think you would have trouble staying awake the whole day if you tried to do anything.
Bye,
Dave
Posted by denise528 on May 25, 2003, at 6:30:47
In reply to Re: thanks for this thread » Eggy, posted by Merci on May 24, 2003, at 14:16:42
Hi Merci,
Can I ask you what drugs you had tried and how you responded to them before you decided to have ECT?
Thanks.......Denise
Posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 10:09:13
In reply to Re: To Merci, posted by denise528 on May 25, 2003, at 6:30:47
There are far too many to name - my list includes 20+ in countless combinations. Some drugs did absolutely nothing; some seemed to take the suicidal edge off for a little while. I'm currently taking 90 mg. Nardil; whether or not I'll be taking Nardil once my ECT treatments end remains to be seen.
Posted by denise528 on May 27, 2003, at 11:26:59
In reply to Re: To Merci, posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 10:09:13
Hi,
I hope the treatments are still going well. Were you taking Nardil before the ECT, how do you find it?
Denise
Posted by denise528 on May 27, 2003, at 11:35:47
In reply to Re: To Merci, posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 10:09:13
Hi Merci,
What I'm really interested to know is how you compare the effects of Nardil with those of ECT. I tried Nardil for a while and didn't like it, although I felt really relaxed on it, I had no motivation on it and didn't feel with it at all, I went on a long distance journey to see a friend and was in a total daze for most of the journey. Does ECT do that to you?
I'd hate to have ECT and end up feeling like I did on Nardil only permanently but then again I hate the way I feel now.
Also, had you tried any of the antipsychotic drugs?
Denise
Posted by ant-rock on May 27, 2003, at 12:21:38
In reply to Re: To Merci, posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 10:09:13
> There are far too many to name - my list includes 20+ in countless combinations. Some drugs did absolutely nothing; some seemed to take the suicidal edge off for a little while. I'm currently taking 90 mg. Nardil; whether or not I'll be taking Nardil once my ECT treatments end remains to be seen.
Hi Again...
I just wanted to thank you once again Merci.
I really hope you can continue letting me (and anyone else interested) know how you are doing with the remaining treatments. I too have been on countless meds for years, making me finally consider this route.Take care of yourself,
Anthony
Posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 16:50:28
In reply to Re: To Merci - Sorry, one more question., posted by denise528 on May 27, 2003, at 11:35:47
I have been on Nardil for 6-7 months and like I said in my other post, it just takes the suicidal edge off. It certainly hasn't cleared up my depression - nor has it put me in a daze. I know that everyone reacts differently to different treatments - I suppose if I were you I would NOT assume that ECT would have the same effect on you as Nardil. I guess Nardil hasn't really been effective as an anti-depressant for me and that's why I'm doing the ECT.
Today was treatment number 7 and I must say that I'm getting a bit discouraged - it doesn't feel like the ECT is progressing further than any antidepressant ever has. I am scheduled for 9 treatments total, which they may extend to 12, depending on how I feel at the end of the week. Right now I'm going through one of those times where I feel like crap and can't believe that I've ever felt or ever will feel another way.
Yes, I have been on a couple of anti-psychotics, the last one being seroquel. I have always had a horrible time sleeping so my doc. prescribed seroquel in hopes that it would be sedating if I took it at night - well, I got up to 250 mg. and it didn't touch my insomnia. The only thing it did was give me horrible nightmares.
Everything that I read keeps saying that there is an effective treatment option for everyone, be it a daily chemical cocktail or ECT. I'd like to keep believing that ECT is going to do it for me but I'm not feeling that hopeful today. I have another treatment tomorrow, so I'll report back then. I hope that you find your answer - I hope we both do.
Merci
Posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 16:53:37
In reply to Re: To Merci, posted by ant-rock on May 27, 2003, at 12:21:38
Thank you, Anthony. I needed to hear that I am not alone in my plight. Take care of yourself, too.
Merci
Posted by Eggy on May 27, 2003, at 22:53:24
In reply to Re: To Merci - Sorry, one more question., posted by Merci on May 27, 2003, at 16:50:28
I read your post on your last ECT treatment. Everytime you bake a cake it doesn't turn out perfect. But it still taste good. Next time it will be better. Your going to do really good. We don't expect a complete 100% change. We don't expect anything we only wish. I feel I may have pressure you too much on the ECT thing. Just knowing there are more things I haven't tried has given us hope and encouragement. You are a brave person and I just LOVE you. ((((HUGS))))
Smile and keep up that chin...you have a whole cheering section here if you haven't noticed. If ECT doesn't give you the results you were looking for then we will all work together and find a cure for this so called "DEPRESSION CRAP!!
Maybe it's as easy as mixing a little lemonjuice toothpaste and soured milk...of course you have to be the first to try that too!
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