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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 112 to 136 of 262. Go back in thread:
Posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 22:55:21
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!cost? priceless., posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 20:56:13
Youch, there's just no way I could afford $600 a month--$400 or even $200 a month at the moment. The only way I could even begin to think about it (until I get a regular, decent paying job) would be to get in terrible credit card debt. If insurance covered it it would be wonderful of course (you don't use insurance?). Well, first things first I guess, then I'll worry about the (yikes) cost. God bless your doctor, therapist, psychiatrist *and* pharmacist!! Thanks bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 22:57:38
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!! » kara lynne, posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 21:16:37
Thanks, I'll try to check it out too. Maybe I'll see you at yahoo!
Posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 23:49:00
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 22:57:38
Ok Kara...It's late and I'm rummy from all this Yahoo stuff....I am regestered there as babblebeehappy..and I left a test message on the Babble open board addressed to you...I dont know how long the messages stay on there so if you get it let me know and we can make arrangements to meet there and chat. At the very least we can exchange email addresses in private?. More later.Bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 14:20:44
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 23:49:00
I'm having some trouble over in yahoo babble-ville, but I'm going to try again a little later. Hopefully I'll be able to get it together!
Posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 19:25:28
In reply to Good morning babblebee.., posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 14:20:44
Ok, I think I finally got there, but the message was "The list psycho-babble-open is temporarily unavailable". I will try again later.
Posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 21:13:07
In reply to More babble for bee..., posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 19:25:28
Hi again Kara...if you're there on line now do you want to try going to yahoo and see what will happen?
Posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 22:16:16
In reply to Re: More babble for bee..., posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 21:13:07
Okay Kara, I give up on the chat room thing.I can't get it to do anyting! Absolute rubbish. You can email me at babblebeehappy@yahoo.com.I can't think of any other way to do this.I am so new to the internet and probably more paranoid than is necessary...so I established an email address at yahoo and will use it to keep our conversations off the public board...if that's ok with you. Bee
Posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
In reply to Re: More babble for bee..., posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 22:16:16
I tryed Zyprexa and it was even worse than antidepressants, appart from the physical symtems it made my depression much worse. My "expert" pdoc just gave me some geodon instead. I don't think I'm going to take it. My depression has gotten to the point where everything is pain. I eat and am still hungry. I sleep and am still tired. Every thought every breath is pain. Talking to people is harder than it has ever been, and that's saying alot for me. I ordered some Ultram over the internet because buenanophine (i probably spelled it wrong) is new so it's too expencive and hard to find. If it doesn't work, or if some other miricle (like a supportive girl friend) doesn't happen I will most likely commit suicide. It's hurt to much for too long and pdocs don't give a sh**. Thearapy can do no more for me after 24 years. These new psyc meds are just as crappy as the old and i don't have the time or energy anymore for endless drug trials just to satisfy the "ethics" of my doctors. It just hurts so much, and I have no hope left.
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 16:21:54
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
> I tryed Zyprexa and it was even worse than antidepressants, appart from the physical symtems it made my depression much worse. My "expert" pdoc just gave me some geodon instead. I don't think I'm going to take it. My depression has gotten to the point where everything is pain. I eat and am still hungry. I sleep and am still tired. Every thought every breath is pain. Talking to people is harder than it has ever been, and that's saying alot for me. I ordered some Ultram over the internet because buenanophine (i probably spelled it wrong) is new so it's too expencive and hard to find. If it doesn't work, or if some other miricle (like a supportive girl friend) doesn't happen I will most likely commit suicide. It's hurt to much for too long and pdocs don't give a sh**. Thearapy can do no more for me after 24 years. These new psyc meds are just as crappy as the old and i don't have the time or energy anymore for endless drug trials just to satisfy the "ethics" of my doctors. It just hurts so much, and I have no hope left.
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I am sorry to hear that you feel so bad. I hope it passes soon. I dont really know much about these meds you are taking, but maybe you should try the med the doctor gave you, it may work. Is it just depression that you suffer from? Can you tell anyone you feel like this, suicidal? I think you should go and see yor doctor as soon as possible and tell that you feel like this.
Posted by BrittPark on February 24, 2003, at 19:55:47
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
I know it sounds like empty words but you will feel better. It takes patience and is far from comfortable getting there but you will find an effective treatment. Also if you ever get to the point where you are actually planning suicide, go directly to the nearest emergency room. Psych wards are not wonderful but they will care for you and suicide is an irreversible decision which will rob you of years of living a happy life.
Why not tell us a little more about your diagnosis and the medications you are taking or have taken. PB is filled with people who can suggest things to try and give you a lot of support. Give us some more info and people will start chiming in.
Feel Better,
Britt
Posted by Craig Allen on February 24, 2003, at 20:02:22
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
part of the mood problem we have is the feeling that we're stuck permanently in it. in fact, you'll get a breather from this rough patch. i know how you're feeling, i've been in the weeds too. hang on.
Posted by bee happy on February 24, 2003, at 21:20:52
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
Hold on Blah. You are the reason I first posted my experience on this board in hopes of helping others. Please be patient. Does your GP know what you're going through? If so, call him and explain that you need help in finding a doctor willing to try this. Do you have any opiate addiction history? If so perhaps an addiction specialist could help or your GP could prescribe this after an 8 hour course in opiate addiction maintainance. Go to the emergency room and ask them to brainstorm with your Pdoc and GP and come up with a referral too someone who is willing to try it. I agree that if you are feeling this close to bottoming out you should get to an emergency room asap. Be calm. Explaine what you have told us and ask them to please try this even for a few days under watch. This will pass but not if you're not here. What have you got to lose. Please. Go to the emergency room now.I am told that Dr Bodkin At McClean Hospital in Boston will take a call from your doctor to explain his research with Buprenorphine. Would your Pdoc be willing to call him? Ask!!! You must keep trying!Bee.
Posted by bee happy on February 24, 2003, at 21:24:25
In reply to Re: Near the end. » Blah, posted by BrittPark on February 24, 2003, at 19:55:47
Amen Britt. I would like to know more too.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2003, at 1:51:35
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!! » kara lynne, posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 21:16:37
> I was told about a chat room set up for us on Yahoo...
FYI, posting is turned off there, since people can just post here. To chat, as opposed to post, there, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-open/chat
Bob
Posted by blah on February 25, 2003, at 7:49:37
In reply to Re: Near the end., posted by bee happy on February 24, 2003, at 21:20:52
You have to understand this has been my whole life. I never get better. For me to get better I would need basic things in my life to improve like a significant other who was supportive, and who I could give myself to, but things like this aren’t possible. I have more than depression. I hate DSM language, and I don’t fully fit any diagnosis, but if I were to use that language I would say that I am a mixture of Depression, Dysthymia, Anxiety, Avoidant Personality Disorder, but at my core I feel I mainly have Schizotypal Personality Disorder. I don’t fit the entire description, but here is a link that describes it relatively well (keep in mind I don’t believe in UFOs but have most of the negative symptoms, and do have a problem functioning in reality):
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/schtypal.htm
I’m also completely isolated, live on SSI, and have no energy to do even things I want to do, or basic things like cleaning and cooking. None of my few friends understand, and when I try to explain it they say I just think about it to much. I’ve been in extreme emotional pain my whole life, but I never imagined it could hurt this much, and every day it gets worse. I’ve realized there are just parts of me missing, and I can’t even hope to fill them at all without serious help. Doctors don’t care. They want to fix something that can’t be fixed with cures that don’t work. I get sinus infections almost twice a month now. My former GP wants me to get another CAT scan of my sinuses (I’ve done this twice so far and it showed nothing). I’ve explained to him that this is ultimately a physical symptom of my mental illness, and that all he can do is treat the symptoms with antibiotics (I don’t like taking them but there isn’t much else to do), but he now won’t rx them without yet another intense exam that will show nothing, waste my time, and add to my hopelessness. My “expert” Pdoc can rx an opioid, but will not until I try pretty much every useless psychiatric drug out there. I learned from taking almost every antidepressant that if a drug feels like crap it won’t work, in fact it will make me worse. Zyprexa, an A Typical antipsychotic made me feel even worse than the antidepressant (and they made me feel like death), and now he wants me to try another one, and when that one sinks me a little more, another one, and another, and another. I already crave an end to this pain that will never leave. He knows about the studies with Buprenorphine and doesn’t give a sh**. Better I should kill myself than risk “HORROR!” addiction. I never have done opiates, if I had he would be more willing to use opioids since I could say I felt the depression lift. Well, now I’ll see for myself if it will help. If you can leave me a way that I can contact those doctors in Boston I will call them and see if they know a more willing and helpful Doctor in my area. I also keep asking for Social Skills or Surrogate Therapy, but I just get directed to more useless, judgmental group therapy or harmful meds. There’s just no place for me. I’m to smart to be in a low IQ program, too nonfunctional and incomplete for normal therapy or drugs to help, not psychotic so programs for people with schizophrenia won’t help, and I’m too weird; peculiar; and socially unskilled to meet women and feel that part of life, and gain some comfort from intimate encouragement, and just being held. Maybe if Ultram or Buprenorphine could take away even a good fraction of my mental and physical pain I could start to function, and maybe build some sort of life for myself no matter how incomplete. Doctors don’t care about me they only care bout their egos and their theories, and when you don’t feed either you aren’t a special case, you are only an enemy, and they treat you like one. I’ve felt it time and time again. My pain won’t get better on its own, it will get worse. I’ve run out of options, energy, hope, and time. I feel so empty now I’m not even sure if there is anything left to save.
Posted by jaby on February 25, 2003, at 10:02:51
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
I would strongly consider talking to you doc about ECT. I have seen it save my sister's life.
Posted by androog on February 25, 2003, at 11:10:34
In reply to Re: Near the end., posted by blah on February 25, 2003, at 7:49:37
hi blah,
man, your are in a world of hurt. i think everyone in this group knows what that is like. when i felt like you do i couldn't believe that anyone was even close to feeling as bad as i did. i thought i was the most hurtin'ist thing on earth and it couldn't be matched by any living thing.but i was wrong. i felt like that and am alive today to tell about it.
right now, this is no consolation to you. you're at the end of your rope and words are hollow. everyone keeps telling you try this and try that, but you've tried this and that and it hasn't helped. you're probably tired of hearing all these bits of advice and really only want a magic pill that will take it all or most of it away FAST. you're frustrated, hopeless, lonely, angry and tired.the thought of going to an emergency room for help probably makes you want to scream because you think nobody will care or try to relieve your pain with drugs designed to treat physical pain.
i remember thinking that if i had a broken leg or some serious injury, nobody would expect me to go through endless trials to get some relief. what you're feeling right now is not much different than extreme physical pain. problem is, the powers in charge have most likely never felt the agony of major depression. in the back of their minds the're probably thinking "there's no blood, no quantifying evidence of pain. it can't be all that bad", if they're thinking at all. but they're wrong. your hurt is coming at you from all angles and not just through some pain receptor in your brain, so it's even worse than a broken leg.
i have no magic bullet to offer you and words have long since lost their effect, BUT, i have a question. you said you had ordered some ultram online. have you recieved it yet? if so, have you tried it? if you haven't tried it yet, then there is some immediate hope. i felt EXACTLY the way you describe and the tramadol pulled me right through it. i'm not kidding or trying to stall you. i was totally suicidal one minute and the next i felt an interest in life and was eager to do things. things that dragged me down to the bottom of despair an hour ago became minor nuisances that i could deal with.
i just read a quote from a research doc who said what i've been thinking all along but have not found the words for. he said this regarding antidepressants, but it also describes the way the tramadol has worked for me "we think the drugs allow people to recover. we think they work at quite a cognitive level. they change the biases that exist in the brain to see the bad in things versus the good."
this was my exact experience with ultram. i felt no physical change at all. my attitude just did a 180 degree turn. obstacles were much easier to face and hardly bothered me at all.
i'm saying this because you have a litany of things that seem insurmountable right now, especially the lonliness and need for the comfort a significant other. real physical contact and not just more words.
i want to tell you that once you get past the major depression the other things will start to fall in place because you will feel capable of dealing with them. they'll be a challenge that you're finally up to.
i know i'm not supposed to hand out medical advice here, but i can't just sit by and watch you work your way into suicide. give the tramadol a chance. don't take more than a couple and give them an hour and a half to work. don't be tempted to take a handful. more is not better in this case, and i'd tell you if it were.
PLEASE let us know when you've tried this. AND PLEASE DON'T KILL YOURSELF! believe it or don't, we need stories like yours here. they remind us all of how bad this thing is and that we're not alone in feeling this way. if the ultram helps you, it can help others by giving them hope; letting them know something can actually help.
you can't undo suicide and who knows what awaits us on the other side? probably not ultram.
hang on and let us know what happens with the ultram.
i may get booted off this chat room by singing the praises of tramadol, but, for crying out loud, don't do anything until you've tried it. and if it doesn't help, let us know about that, too. i am totally convinced that there is some unorthodox treatment that will help you.
androog
Posted by hok on February 25, 2003, at 11:55:34
In reply to Re: Near the end., posted by androog on February 25, 2003, at 11:10:34
to androog, bee happy and the others in the 'opiate gang,'
You guys all seem to be pretty content with the effectiveness of these drugs. But can you enlighten us on some (if any) of the side effects that you experience? The research points to some issues with nausea, dysphoria, etc.
Can you please describe any physical as well cognitive issues that accompany ultram and/or buph? For example, how much cognitive impairment (e.g. memory recall, brain fog) is there? Any resulting decrease in drive or motivation? Some have said that it has kept them up while others say they are somewhat somnolescent on them. Can you please enlighten us?
thanks, HK
Posted by BrittPark on February 25, 2003, at 13:12:11
In reply to Re: side effects of buprenorphine and ultram, posted by hok on February 25, 2003, at 11:55:34
I can only speak to the opioid class since I've never taken buprenorphine or tramadol. I take 1 5/500 vicodin a day, usually in the evening. I experience no side effects. When I've been prescribed vicodin or codeine after surgery the only side effect I've noticed was constipation, which was easily addressed with sodium docusate. After the one surgery I had under general anaesthetic, I woke feeling nauseated, but did not vomit. Commonly the very short acting opioid fentanyl is used during surgery. In sum I've experienced very few side effects on opioids. However everyone's mileage will vary.
Britt
Posted by blah on February 25, 2003, at 15:16:36
In reply to Re: Near the end.Blah, posted by jaby on February 25, 2003, at 10:02:51
> I would strongly consider talking to you doc about ECT. I have seen it save my sister's life.
I believe that ECT would make things worse for me, the way it did for androog. My primary problem is not depression but missing parts of my personality. ECT won’t fix that, and my therapist agrees. Also, it is permanent and many believe it’s temporary antidepressant effects is only the result of shock from brain trauma. It doesn’t make sense for me to try something so irreparable, that will have such temporary results before I try Ultram or another opioid. I won’t be receiving it for a while, and am not sure how to hold out till then. The Emergency room can only isolate me, shame me, and keep me away from my order. What I feel is chronic not temporary, it only gets better with extreme social support, and even then only for a few hours after that support stops. My therapist said its like being fed, and I guess it is. I’ve been “fed” so little in my life. All of these “approved” psychiatric drugs seem to take more away from me, not give things back, and I don’t have much left that I can give up.
Posted by Dog Breath on February 25, 2003, at 17:34:26
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
> I tryed Zyprexa and it was even worse than antidepressants, appart from the physical symtems it made my depression much worse. My "expert" pdoc just gave me some geodon instead. I don't think I'm going to take it. My depression has gotten to the point where everything is pain. I eat and am still hungry. I sleep and am still tired. Every thought every breath is pain. Talking to people is harder than it has ever been, and that's saying alot for me. I ordered some Ultram over the internet because buenanophine (i probably spelled it wrong) is new so it's too expencive and hard to find. If it doesn't work, or if some other miricle (like a supportive girl friend) doesn't happen I will most likely commit suicide. It's hurt to much for too long and pdocs don't give a sh**. Thearapy can do no more for me after 24 years. These new psyc meds are just as crappy as the old and i don't have the time or energy anymore for endless drug trials just to satisfy the "ethics" of my doctors. It just hurts so much, and I have no hope left.
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Please be careful with Ultram. It's a great drug that will improve your mood without making you feel "high". I have used it episodically for pain. The problem comes when you run out. The withdrawl is very unpleasant and definitely worsens or causes depression. I don't use it anymore because of the rebound depression, even after only a few days use.
Posted by bee happy on February 25, 2003, at 21:22:02
In reply to Re: Near the end., posted by blah on February 25, 2003, at 7:49:37
Blah, Androog would make a wonderful therapist. Listen . In the meantime you could try reaching Dr Bodkin at Mcclean Hospital in Boston. I don't have the number but I 'm sure you can get it through information. The area code is 617 i believe. Try. Please. IT will make you feel better to know you're doing everything you can until your ultram arrives.
Posted by bee happy on February 25, 2003, at 22:26:55
In reply to Re: side effects of buprenorphine and ultram, posted by hok on February 25, 2003, at 11:55:34
Hi Hoc. I have no compalaints with the buprnorphine, but I think I might be alone in this. Many have had tolerance issues and for some it just plain stopped working. I have been at the same dose for nearly six months.6-8 mg per day depending on absorbtion which seems to vary depending on how watery my mouth is) I still marvel at the effectiveness in fact. I have much more drive. I have neither nausea nor dysphoria.My immediate recall memory seems to be suffering of late but I'm menopausal....so I write it off to that.Most of my peers seem to have the same problem.And if it's the drug causing it ..I'd trade those brain cells for my will to live any day. It am feeling more outgoing and comfortable in social situations. I can concentrate again. I can read again. I can make decisions and not kill my self wondering if I did the right thing. I'm still anxious at times and am still sad at times...that is normal.I see beauty in everyday events and when especially struck by something, marvel at the difference in my life now and the hellish place I inhabited eight months ago. I know there must be a downside somewhere...but the only thing I can see is the fear of addiction. Why is more noble to go through life depressed than to risk addiction? Truly it is time for a backlash on this issue. If I need Betty Fords help someday....well, at least I'm here to need it. Bee
Posted by KrissyP on February 25, 2003, at 23:11:45
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
> I tryed Zyprexa and it was even worse than antidepressants, appart from the physical symtems it made my depression much worse. My "expert" pdoc just gave me some geodon instead. I don't think I'm going to take it. My depression has gotten to the point where everything is pain. I eat and am still hungry. I sleep and am still tired. Every thought every breath is pain. Talking to people is harder than it has ever been, and that's saying alot for me. I ordered some Ultram over the internet because buenanophine (i probably spelled it wrong) is new so it's too expencive and hard to find. If it doesn't work, or if some other miricle (like a supportive girl friend) doesn't happen I will most likely commit suicide. It's hurt to much for too long and pdocs don't give a sh**. Thearapy can do no more for me after 24 years. These new psyc meds are just as crappy as the old and i don't have the time or energy anymore for endless drug trials just to satisfy the "ethics" of my doctors. It just hurts so much, and I have no hope left.------------I can tell you that I have felt EXACTLY how you feel in this post, and never felt so much pain as I have in the last few days. You have choices. I have choices and it is one heck of a FIGHT---I know, you CAN and WILL find strength and get back your hope-I believe in you and no, I may not know who you are, but I do know how you feel. I have struggled with a loneliness, and depression so bad at times that I tried suicide---2x it is NOT worth it. Things will pass, and be assertive with your doc or a doc that will listen to you- YOU DESERVE to be heard, ny friend. Don't let anyone tell you different, please. I can't say either things will get better, but I hope they do for you. I too have so often said "no one gives a s#@!" but the fact of the matter is, some do and some don't. In regards to your post, I care because I hear your despair. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make things better-but I cannot. Keep hanging in and if need be, please get to the ER.
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Posted by Questionmark on February 26, 2003, at 2:04:17
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
Blah-- i'm so sorry. i don't think i've ever felt as hopeless as you seem to feel, but i understand the "every thought every breath is pain" comment. It is terrible. It is freaking, terrible. Listen, i think EVERY pharmaceutical can cause addiction to some extent, but it's obvious you need something potent at this point (good potent not just fry your brains potent). i think an opiate or an MAOI might be able to help you alot more than those other petty drugs, and help you improve your life. Try to find a doctor who will prescribe you something like this. Nardil/phenelzine might be a good idea. Have you been on? i can totally understand how you'd be sick as sh*t of guniea pigging around for these arrogant *** *oles, always in vain. Psychiatry is so often ridiculous. But don't give up before trying some of the powerful blessed drugs like opiates and MAOIs. You might as well, right? Just in case? Good luck man.
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