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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 104 to 128 of 262. Go back in thread:
Posted by bee happy on February 21, 2003, at 21:44:36
In reply to Bee Happy- One Last Question...., posted by kara lynne on February 21, 2003, at 18:58:10
Oh Kara I was looking for this yesterday but couldn't find it...Here is a little snippet from the Faq page of this site.Our Doctors should and do have the right to prescribe off label when then feel it's warrented.My Pdoc felt safe in trying this drug because of the Harvard study.What does FDA approval mean?
It is important to recognize that it is never a drug or other
product that is approved or not approved, but a claim about the
use of the drug or product... Neither the FDA nor the Federal
government regulate the practice of medicine. Any approved
product may be used by a licensed practitioner for uses other
than those stated in the product label. Off-label use is not
illegal, but means that the data to support that use have not
been independently reviewed by the FDA. --US Food and Drug
Administration
Posted by bee happy on February 21, 2003, at 22:29:56
In reply to Bee Happy- One Last Question...., posted by kara lynne on February 21, 2003, at 18:58:10
Hi again Kara...Have you got the babble mail feature working? If so we can write to each other through that...no email addresses are posted and our messages go through this site addressed to our board names...just go to the FAQ section and toward the end are instructions on how to turn on the Babble Mail feature. I just regestered so you can babble me when you've regestered too. Wow what a mouth full..Bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 21, 2003, at 22:45:51
In reply to Re: Bee Happy- One Last Question...., posted by bee happy on February 21, 2003, at 22:29:56
I really thank you for all of that, and for going to the trouble to find out how to email (semi) personally. It may take me a while, but I'll try to do it. Boy, it really is hard to understand what my doctor is talking about at this point. He's out of town, or I would have called him. I will definitely call him next week. Ok, when I get back tonight I'll see if I can't try babble mail to try and clarify more for you (if it's possible!). Thanks again
bee.
Posted by bee happy on February 21, 2003, at 23:16:45
In reply to Thanks Bee!!, posted by kara lynne on February 21, 2003, at 22:45:51
Kara! Wah!!! I just tried the babblemail test and it came up with a message 'this url not found on server'...oh well I have a message into Dr. Bob asking what the next step should be . More later...tomorrow...Bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 2:36:19
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by bee happy on February 21, 2003, at 23:16:45
That's ok, we'll try tomorrow. But since I*have* you here, I'll ask you yet another question-- if you don't mind--- how much do the troches cost? I heard they would be very expensive. Ok, I've harrassed you enough! Have a good night, and thanks again.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2003, at 8:09:18
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by bee happy on February 21, 2003, at 23:16:45
> Kara! Wah!!! I just tried the babblemail test and it came up with a message 'this url not found on server'
Sorry, I don't have it working yet. Thanks for your patience,
Bob
Posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 20:56:13
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 2:36:19
> That's ok, we'll try tomorrow. But since I*have* you here, I'll ask you yet another question-- if you don't mind--- how much do the troches cost? I heard they would be very expensive. Ok, I've harrassed you enough! Have a good night, and thanks again.
Kara. I must be one of the luckiest patients on this board. Not only do my family doctor, therapist, and psychiatrist all agree that this is the answer for my depression, I also have a small home town pharmacist who is also the salt of the earth and when he first quoted the $595 per month I almost choked. He then said if I were to continue with this drug he would work something out. The price is $425 per month. Yes that is alot...but my will to live is worth every penny.Also I think I read somewhere on this board that some insurances do cover all but a small copay. Does this make a difference for you?
Posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 21:16:37
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 2:36:19
About our ongoing dialogue...When I asked Dr. Bob about Babblemail on the Administration Board I was told about a chat room set up for us on Yahoo...the message said go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-open/ . Well, I have never done this before but I am a regestered on Yahoo....so I will go check it out. Sounds like you might be about as un-with-it as I am a this tech stuff....It's really great but everthing takes so loooong..to set up and all. Nevertheless, I will go see what's involved and get back to you..... if I understand it. Bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 22:55:21
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!cost? priceless., posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 20:56:13
Youch, there's just no way I could afford $600 a month--$400 or even $200 a month at the moment. The only way I could even begin to think about it (until I get a regular, decent paying job) would be to get in terrible credit card debt. If insurance covered it it would be wonderful of course (you don't use insurance?). Well, first things first I guess, then I'll worry about the (yikes) cost. God bless your doctor, therapist, psychiatrist *and* pharmacist!! Thanks bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 22:57:38
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!! » kara lynne, posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 21:16:37
Thanks, I'll try to check it out too. Maybe I'll see you at yahoo!
Posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 23:49:00
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by kara lynne on February 22, 2003, at 22:57:38
Ok Kara...It's late and I'm rummy from all this Yahoo stuff....I am regestered there as babblebeehappy..and I left a test message on the Babble open board addressed to you...I dont know how long the messages stay on there so if you get it let me know and we can make arrangements to meet there and chat. At the very least we can exchange email addresses in private?. More later.Bee
Posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 14:20:44
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!!, posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 23:49:00
I'm having some trouble over in yahoo babble-ville, but I'm going to try again a little later. Hopefully I'll be able to get it together!
Posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 19:25:28
In reply to Good morning babblebee.., posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 14:20:44
Ok, I think I finally got there, but the message was "The list psycho-babble-open is temporarily unavailable". I will try again later.
Posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 21:13:07
In reply to More babble for bee..., posted by kara lynne on February 23, 2003, at 19:25:28
Hi again Kara...if you're there on line now do you want to try going to yahoo and see what will happen?
Posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 22:16:16
In reply to Re: More babble for bee..., posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 21:13:07
Okay Kara, I give up on the chat room thing.I can't get it to do anyting! Absolute rubbish. You can email me at babblebeehappy@yahoo.com.I can't think of any other way to do this.I am so new to the internet and probably more paranoid than is necessary...so I established an email address at yahoo and will use it to keep our conversations off the public board...if that's ok with you. Bee
Posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
In reply to Re: More babble for bee..., posted by bee happy on February 23, 2003, at 22:16:16
I tryed Zyprexa and it was even worse than antidepressants, appart from the physical symtems it made my depression much worse. My "expert" pdoc just gave me some geodon instead. I don't think I'm going to take it. My depression has gotten to the point where everything is pain. I eat and am still hungry. I sleep and am still tired. Every thought every breath is pain. Talking to people is harder than it has ever been, and that's saying alot for me. I ordered some Ultram over the internet because buenanophine (i probably spelled it wrong) is new so it's too expencive and hard to find. If it doesn't work, or if some other miricle (like a supportive girl friend) doesn't happen I will most likely commit suicide. It's hurt to much for too long and pdocs don't give a sh**. Thearapy can do no more for me after 24 years. These new psyc meds are just as crappy as the old and i don't have the time or energy anymore for endless drug trials just to satisfy the "ethics" of my doctors. It just hurts so much, and I have no hope left.
Posted by daizy on February 24, 2003, at 16:21:54
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
> I tryed Zyprexa and it was even worse than antidepressants, appart from the physical symtems it made my depression much worse. My "expert" pdoc just gave me some geodon instead. I don't think I'm going to take it. My depression has gotten to the point where everything is pain. I eat and am still hungry. I sleep and am still tired. Every thought every breath is pain. Talking to people is harder than it has ever been, and that's saying alot for me. I ordered some Ultram over the internet because buenanophine (i probably spelled it wrong) is new so it's too expencive and hard to find. If it doesn't work, or if some other miricle (like a supportive girl friend) doesn't happen I will most likely commit suicide. It's hurt to much for too long and pdocs don't give a sh**. Thearapy can do no more for me after 24 years. These new psyc meds are just as crappy as the old and i don't have the time or energy anymore for endless drug trials just to satisfy the "ethics" of my doctors. It just hurts so much, and I have no hope left.
>>
I am sorry to hear that you feel so bad. I hope it passes soon. I dont really know much about these meds you are taking, but maybe you should try the med the doctor gave you, it may work. Is it just depression that you suffer from? Can you tell anyone you feel like this, suicidal? I think you should go and see yor doctor as soon as possible and tell that you feel like this.
Posted by BrittPark on February 24, 2003, at 19:55:47
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
I know it sounds like empty words but you will feel better. It takes patience and is far from comfortable getting there but you will find an effective treatment. Also if you ever get to the point where you are actually planning suicide, go directly to the nearest emergency room. Psych wards are not wonderful but they will care for you and suicide is an irreversible decision which will rob you of years of living a happy life.
Why not tell us a little more about your diagnosis and the medications you are taking or have taken. PB is filled with people who can suggest things to try and give you a lot of support. Give us some more info and people will start chiming in.
Feel Better,
Britt
Posted by Craig Allen on February 24, 2003, at 20:02:22
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
part of the mood problem we have is the feeling that we're stuck permanently in it. in fact, you'll get a breather from this rough patch. i know how you're feeling, i've been in the weeds too. hang on.
Posted by bee happy on February 24, 2003, at 21:20:52
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
Hold on Blah. You are the reason I first posted my experience on this board in hopes of helping others. Please be patient. Does your GP know what you're going through? If so, call him and explain that you need help in finding a doctor willing to try this. Do you have any opiate addiction history? If so perhaps an addiction specialist could help or your GP could prescribe this after an 8 hour course in opiate addiction maintainance. Go to the emergency room and ask them to brainstorm with your Pdoc and GP and come up with a referral too someone who is willing to try it. I agree that if you are feeling this close to bottoming out you should get to an emergency room asap. Be calm. Explaine what you have told us and ask them to please try this even for a few days under watch. This will pass but not if you're not here. What have you got to lose. Please. Go to the emergency room now.I am told that Dr Bodkin At McClean Hospital in Boston will take a call from your doctor to explain his research with Buprenorphine. Would your Pdoc be willing to call him? Ask!!! You must keep trying!Bee.
Posted by bee happy on February 24, 2003, at 21:24:25
In reply to Re: Near the end. » Blah, posted by BrittPark on February 24, 2003, at 19:55:47
Amen Britt. I would like to know more too.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 25, 2003, at 1:51:35
In reply to Re: Thanks Bee!! » kara lynne, posted by bee happy on February 22, 2003, at 21:16:37
> I was told about a chat room set up for us on Yahoo...
FYI, posting is turned off there, since people can just post here. To chat, as opposed to post, there, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/psycho-babble-open/chat
Bob
Posted by blah on February 25, 2003, at 7:49:37
In reply to Re: Near the end., posted by bee happy on February 24, 2003, at 21:20:52
You have to understand this has been my whole life. I never get better. For me to get better I would need basic things in my life to improve like a significant other who was supportive, and who I could give myself to, but things like this aren’t possible. I have more than depression. I hate DSM language, and I don’t fully fit any diagnosis, but if I were to use that language I would say that I am a mixture of Depression, Dysthymia, Anxiety, Avoidant Personality Disorder, but at my core I feel I mainly have Schizotypal Personality Disorder. I don’t fit the entire description, but here is a link that describes it relatively well (keep in mind I don’t believe in UFOs but have most of the negative symptoms, and do have a problem functioning in reality):
http://www.toad.net/~arcturus/dd/schtypal.htm
I’m also completely isolated, live on SSI, and have no energy to do even things I want to do, or basic things like cleaning and cooking. None of my few friends understand, and when I try to explain it they say I just think about it to much. I’ve been in extreme emotional pain my whole life, but I never imagined it could hurt this much, and every day it gets worse. I’ve realized there are just parts of me missing, and I can’t even hope to fill them at all without serious help. Doctors don’t care. They want to fix something that can’t be fixed with cures that don’t work. I get sinus infections almost twice a month now. My former GP wants me to get another CAT scan of my sinuses (I’ve done this twice so far and it showed nothing). I’ve explained to him that this is ultimately a physical symptom of my mental illness, and that all he can do is treat the symptoms with antibiotics (I don’t like taking them but there isn’t much else to do), but he now won’t rx them without yet another intense exam that will show nothing, waste my time, and add to my hopelessness. My “expert” Pdoc can rx an opioid, but will not until I try pretty much every useless psychiatric drug out there. I learned from taking almost every antidepressant that if a drug feels like crap it won’t work, in fact it will make me worse. Zyprexa, an A Typical antipsychotic made me feel even worse than the antidepressant (and they made me feel like death), and now he wants me to try another one, and when that one sinks me a little more, another one, and another, and another. I already crave an end to this pain that will never leave. He knows about the studies with Buprenorphine and doesn’t give a sh**. Better I should kill myself than risk “HORROR!” addiction. I never have done opiates, if I had he would be more willing to use opioids since I could say I felt the depression lift. Well, now I’ll see for myself if it will help. If you can leave me a way that I can contact those doctors in Boston I will call them and see if they know a more willing and helpful Doctor in my area. I also keep asking for Social Skills or Surrogate Therapy, but I just get directed to more useless, judgmental group therapy or harmful meds. There’s just no place for me. I’m to smart to be in a low IQ program, too nonfunctional and incomplete for normal therapy or drugs to help, not psychotic so programs for people with schizophrenia won’t help, and I’m too weird; peculiar; and socially unskilled to meet women and feel that part of life, and gain some comfort from intimate encouragement, and just being held. Maybe if Ultram or Buprenorphine could take away even a good fraction of my mental and physical pain I could start to function, and maybe build some sort of life for myself no matter how incomplete. Doctors don’t care about me they only care bout their egos and their theories, and when you don’t feed either you aren’t a special case, you are only an enemy, and they treat you like one. I’ve felt it time and time again. My pain won’t get better on its own, it will get worse. I’ve run out of options, energy, hope, and time. I feel so empty now I’m not even sure if there is anything left to save.
Posted by jaby on February 25, 2003, at 10:02:51
In reply to Near the end., posted by Blah on February 24, 2003, at 13:55:49
I would strongly consider talking to you doc about ECT. I have seen it save my sister's life.
Posted by androog on February 25, 2003, at 11:10:34
In reply to Re: Near the end., posted by blah on February 25, 2003, at 7:49:37
hi blah,
man, your are in a world of hurt. i think everyone in this group knows what that is like. when i felt like you do i couldn't believe that anyone was even close to feeling as bad as i did. i thought i was the most hurtin'ist thing on earth and it couldn't be matched by any living thing.but i was wrong. i felt like that and am alive today to tell about it.
right now, this is no consolation to you. you're at the end of your rope and words are hollow. everyone keeps telling you try this and try that, but you've tried this and that and it hasn't helped. you're probably tired of hearing all these bits of advice and really only want a magic pill that will take it all or most of it away FAST. you're frustrated, hopeless, lonely, angry and tired.the thought of going to an emergency room for help probably makes you want to scream because you think nobody will care or try to relieve your pain with drugs designed to treat physical pain.
i remember thinking that if i had a broken leg or some serious injury, nobody would expect me to go through endless trials to get some relief. what you're feeling right now is not much different than extreme physical pain. problem is, the powers in charge have most likely never felt the agony of major depression. in the back of their minds the're probably thinking "there's no blood, no quantifying evidence of pain. it can't be all that bad", if they're thinking at all. but they're wrong. your hurt is coming at you from all angles and not just through some pain receptor in your brain, so it's even worse than a broken leg.
i have no magic bullet to offer you and words have long since lost their effect, BUT, i have a question. you said you had ordered some ultram online. have you recieved it yet? if so, have you tried it? if you haven't tried it yet, then there is some immediate hope. i felt EXACTLY the way you describe and the tramadol pulled me right through it. i'm not kidding or trying to stall you. i was totally suicidal one minute and the next i felt an interest in life and was eager to do things. things that dragged me down to the bottom of despair an hour ago became minor nuisances that i could deal with.
i just read a quote from a research doc who said what i've been thinking all along but have not found the words for. he said this regarding antidepressants, but it also describes the way the tramadol has worked for me "we think the drugs allow people to recover. we think they work at quite a cognitive level. they change the biases that exist in the brain to see the bad in things versus the good."
this was my exact experience with ultram. i felt no physical change at all. my attitude just did a 180 degree turn. obstacles were much easier to face and hardly bothered me at all.
i'm saying this because you have a litany of things that seem insurmountable right now, especially the lonliness and need for the comfort a significant other. real physical contact and not just more words.
i want to tell you that once you get past the major depression the other things will start to fall in place because you will feel capable of dealing with them. they'll be a challenge that you're finally up to.
i know i'm not supposed to hand out medical advice here, but i can't just sit by and watch you work your way into suicide. give the tramadol a chance. don't take more than a couple and give them an hour and a half to work. don't be tempted to take a handful. more is not better in this case, and i'd tell you if it were.
PLEASE let us know when you've tried this. AND PLEASE DON'T KILL YOURSELF! believe it or don't, we need stories like yours here. they remind us all of how bad this thing is and that we're not alone in feeling this way. if the ultram helps you, it can help others by giving them hope; letting them know something can actually help.
you can't undo suicide and who knows what awaits us on the other side? probably not ultram.
hang on and let us know what happens with the ultram.
i may get booted off this chat room by singing the praises of tramadol, but, for crying out loud, don't do anything until you've tried it. and if it doesn't help, let us know about that, too. i am totally convinced that there is some unorthodox treatment that will help you.
androog
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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