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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by alti on March 16, 2001, at 16:28:40
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by mmatur on March 14, 2001, at 10:09:25
I have been on Remeron [30mg] for about a month. I have experienced extremely dry mouth, drowsiness in the morning, weakness during the day, hunger all the time! Thanksfully most of the symptoms are gone, I recovered the weight I had lost due to anxiety, and it helps me sleep [I have NICE vivid dreams instead of nightmares =). Also, I am not hungry all the time anymore.
Remeron has helped me with the anxiety but not with the depression so my doc increased the dosis to 45mg today.
The only thing that has not gone away is a sore mouth & tongue. Has anyone experienced this??
Thanks in advance
Alti
Posted by Jill on March 16, 2001, at 18:16:41
In reply to Re: My experience with Remeron [sore mouth], posted by alti on March 16, 2001, at 16:28:40
I remember having problems with bleeding gums (and possibly sores...it's hard to remember) when I first started Remeron. I do sometimes still get sores in my mouth, but I think it's more of a cyclical PMS thing now...likely not due to Remeron.
I'd make sure I mentioned the soreness to your MD...want to make sure you're not having that, rare weird reaction (autoimmune problem???, I can't remember) to Remeron. However, I remember bringing up gum bleeding and mouth issues with my Dr. and worrying about it being that rare side effect and he said "you'd know if it was because you'd be having the worst sore throat of your life!" Still, though, check it out.
My mouth issues have resolved. You may find that yours do, too, with a little time. Also, at 45 mg I'm not drowsy at all during the day. If I take it early enough at night (8:30 or so), getting up isn't too tough. I do sometimes have to "throw" myself out of bed, but once I'm moving, I'm awake. I've gained a little weight, too, but not much. It's a small price to pay for feeling so good.
I've taken 45 mg/night for almost 4 years now for depression and OCD, and I'd have to say, this drug has changed my life. Good luck!
--Jill
Posted by Sunnely on March 16, 2001, at 19:54:10
In reply to Re: My experience with Remeron [sore mouth], posted by alti on March 16, 2001, at 16:28:40
> The only thing that has not gone away is a sore mouth & tongue. Has anyone experienced this??
> Thanks in advance
> Alti+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Alti,
During clinical trials of Remeron, 3 patients developed marked drop in their white blood cell counts, 2 of them with associated signs and symptoms of infection and the third patient without any associated symptoms. I am not certain if this pertains to your problem but I thought I'd bring it up. If you haven't done so, you should notify your doctor immediately and have a CBC with differential count done.
FYI, physicians are advised to discuss the following issues with patients for whom they prescribe Remeron:
Agranulocytosis (critical drop in white blood cell count) - Patients who are on Remeron should be warned about the risk of developing agranulocytosis. Patients should be advised to contact their physician if they experience any indication of infection such as fever, chills, sore throat, mucous membrane ulcerations (e.g., sores in mouth) or other possible signs of infection. Remeron should be stopped immediately if your white cell count are markedly low. Not trying to scare you but this condition can be fatal due to possible massive infection.
Posted by sweetmarie on April 5, 2001, at 16:11:24
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by SalArmy4me on January 18, 2001, at 10:54:10
> I don't have weight gain on Remeron. I did on MAOIs.
I put on a stone when I went onto Lithium (one dress size more, basically). I then went onto Nardil (MAOI), and put another 2 stone on. This means that I have actually gone up 3 dress sizes in all.I`m due to start Remeron (Zispin in this country), which means coming off the Nardil and being `clean` for a week. I`m really concerned that I will not lose the weight I`ve already put on (something which totally does my head in - I have NEVER been this big in my whole life, it`s just not `me`, and I hate it), because of the weight gain that seems to follow with Zispin/Remeron. However, being very treatment resistant, I don`t feel that I can say no to this med. It would be silly.
What I`m hoping is that it`s merely an appetite stimulant, as that can be controlled (with difficulty, I don`t pretend otherwise). Also, this med will be used in conjunction with Venlafaxine, which actually cites weight loss as a side effect - I`ve been on this drug before, and I did lose weight (not loads, but some). Am I barking up the wrong tree to think that the two might cancel eack other out. It`s probably convaluted logic, I know. But ... maybe it`s possible.
Any thoughts, anyone?
Cheers,
Anna.
Posted by Jill on April 5, 2001, at 16:39:51
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron? » SalArmy4me, posted by sweetmarie on April 5, 2001, at 16:11:24
You could see if your doc thinks adding Zantac (which reduces histamine in the stomach...thus, theoretically reducing hunger pangs) might help.
My doc added that a while ago. However, I stopped because it didn't seem to curb my appetite much (if at all?) and I felt like I had kind of worse "rebound" heartburn. However, I did start taking it years after I started the Remeron. Maybe starting right away could have helped keep the 10 or so pounds off. Although, that 10 pounds may be due to getting older and having less time to exercise...
I still have quite a bit of Zantac left and may see if I feel like trying it later. Maybe I didn't give it long enough??? Anyway, for me, I feel like "less is more" when it comes to meds. Now, if only I could get rid of these PMS food cravings (nothing to do with Remeron) :)
Good luck. Remeron really has helped me a great deal.
Jill
Posted by bissie66 on April 7, 2001, at 11:42:48
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron? » SalArmy4me, posted by sweetmarie on April 5, 2001, at 16:11:24
> > I don't have weight gain on Remeron. I did on MAOIs.
>
>
> I put on a stone when I went onto Lithium (one dress size more, basically). I then went onto Nardil (MAOI), and put another 2 stone on. This means that I have actually gone up 3 dress sizes in all.
>
> I`m due to start Remeron (Zispin in this country), which means coming off the Nardil and being `clean` for a week. I`m really concerned that I will not lose the weight I`ve already put on (something which totally does my head in - I have NEVER been this big in my whole life, it`s just not `me`, and I hate it), because of the weight gain that seems to follow with Zispin/Remeron. However, being very treatment resistant, I don`t feel that I can say no to this med. It would be silly.
>
> What I`m hoping is that it`s merely an appetite stimulant, as that can be controlled (with difficulty, I don`t pretend otherwise). Also, this med will be used in conjunction with Venlafaxine, which actually cites weight loss as a side effect - I`ve been on this drug before, and I did lose weight (not loads, but some). Am I barking up the wrong tree to think that the two might cancel eack other out. It`s probably convaluted logic, I know. But ... maybe it`s possible.
>
> Any thoughts, anyone?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anna.My experience with REmeron was that it *was* merely an appetite stimulant. it makes you very hungry and then you eat a lot. i took it right before bed so when it hit me i was so tired that i chose to go to sleep instead of to the fridge to pig out. i stopped taking it b.c. it didn't work on my depression but i did not gain weight.
Posted by run2jaz on April 8, 2001, at 21:22:16
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron? » SalArmy4me, posted by sweetmarie on April 5, 2001, at 16:11:24
Hey, are you involved with The Salvation Army?
If so, e-mail me at Breck_Kitts@uss.salvationarmy.org here in atlanta. I work at headquarters in in the states and was just curious...Breck
>
>
> I put on a stone when I went onto Lithium (one dress size more, basically). I then went onto Nardil (MAOI), and put another 2 stone on. This means that I have actually gone up 3 dress sizes in all.
>
> I`m due to start Remeron (Zispin in this country), which means coming off the Nardil and being `clean` for a week. I`m really concerned that I will not lose the weight I`ve already put on (something which totally does my head in - I have NEVER been this big in my whole life, it`s just not `me`, and I hate it), because of the weight gain that seems to follow with Zispin/Remeron. However, being very treatment resistant, I don`t feel that I can say no to this med. It would be silly.
>
> What I`m hoping is that it`s merely an appetite stimulant, as that can be controlled (with difficulty, I don`t pretend otherwise). Also, this med will be used in conjunction with Venlafaxine, which actually cites weight loss as a side effect - I`ve been on this drug before, and I did lose weight (not loads, but some). Am I barking up the wrong tree to think that the two might cancel eack other out. It`s probably convaluted logic, I know. But ... maybe it`s possible.
>
> Any thoughts, anyone?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Anna.
Posted by Hager on April 19, 2001, at 19:39:24
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by Jill on April 5, 2001, at 16:39:51
Is someone out there who is a Dr. who could answer some of my questions about Remeron? I would be very willing to consider it a Phys. visit and pay for the consultation. I, like many, am afraid of depression meds and need answers from someone who can be frank about the various meds. E-mail hager@execpc.com. THANK YOU.
Posted by Angelica on May 6, 2001, at 14:23:52
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by judy on May 24, 1999, at 7:03:36
I'm scared.. I'm senior at my high school this year... I want to get off the drugs.. I'm on the ZOloft(150 mg) now since Oct. And, Now, I recently put on Remeron(a week and a day, 30 mg) with Axid(300mg in morning and night)... Now, I feel more depress, confuse, anxious. And, I'm scared to tell my counselors and doctor that the medications is not working but it makes me worse. Plus, it change who I am and the way my behavior is. Plus, I getting lot sick cux of it. I'm soo sleepy and exhaust but couldn't rest. Plus, I can't even focus and is very jumpy in classes. Also, I getting lot of mild electric shock feeling that makes me have headaches, and heart raced. My mind is playing trick on me, like I though i seeing things cuz of the shade t hings, and I heard some noise but it was nothing.. Does anyone have this experiecne? and is it safe to have both drugs together at the same time???
Posted by Daveman on May 7, 2001, at 1:16:55
In reply to Zoloft and Remeron together???, posted by Angelica on May 6, 2001, at 14:23:52
You MUST tell your doctor of the side effects you are experiencing. Unless he/she has accurate information, the doctor cannot prescribe properly. It does sound like you are on a lot of meds for such a young person. But the combo of an SSRI and Remeron is not unusual, I am on 40 mg. Celexa and 15 mg. Remeron. On the other hand I've had none of the side effects you describe.
Again- you must be honest with your doc. If you feel you cannot trust the doc, tell your folks or some adult you trust (perhaps a teacher or counselor). Taking meds that don't work is of no benefit. Good luck and let us know what happens!
Dave
> I'm scared.. I'm senior at my high school this year... I want to get off the drugs.. I'm on the ZOloft(150 mg) now since Oct. And, Now, I recently put on Remeron(a week and a day, 30 mg) with Axid(300mg in morning and night)... Now, I feel more depress, confuse, anxious. And, I'm scared to tell my counselors and doctor that the medications is not working but it makes me worse. Plus, it change who I am and the way my behavior is. Plus, I getting lot sick cux of it. I'm soo sleepy and exhaust but couldn't rest. Plus, I can't even focus and is very jumpy in classes. Also, I getting lot of mild electric shock feeling that makes me have headaches, and heart raced. My mind is playing trick on me, like I though i seeing things cuz of the shade t hings, and I heard some noise but it was nothing.. Does anyone have this experiecne? and is it safe to have both drugs together at the same time???
Posted by Scotty on June 15, 2001, at 15:18:25
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by bissie66 on April 7, 2001, at 11:42:48
> > > I don't have weight gain on Remeron. I did on MAOIs.
> >
> >
> > I put on a stone when I went onto Lithium (one dress size more, basically). I then went onto Nardil (MAOI), and put another 2 stone on. This means that I have actually gone up 3 dress sizes in all.
> >
> > I`m due to start Remeron (Zispin in this country), which means coming off the Nardil and being `clean` for a week. I`m really concerned that I will not lose the weight I`ve already put on (something which totally does my head in - I have NEVER been this big in my whole life, it`s just not `me`, and I hate it), because of the weight gain that seems to follow with Zispin/Remeron. However, being very treatment resistant, I don`t feel that I can say no to this med. It would be silly.
> >
> > What I`m hoping is that it`s merely an appetite stimulant, as that can be controlled (with difficulty, I don`t pretend otherwise). Also, this med will be used in conjunction with Venlafaxine, which actually cites weight loss as a side effect - I`ve been on this drug before, and I did lose weight (not loads, but some). Am I barking up the wrong tree to think that the two might cancel eack other out. It`s probably convaluted logic, I know. But ... maybe it`s possible.
> >
> > Any thoughts, anyone?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Anna.
>
> My experience with REmeron was that it *was* merely an appetite stimulant. it makes you very hungry and then you eat a lot. i took it right before bed so when it hit me i was so tired that i chose to go to sleep instead of to the fridge to pig out. i stopped taking it b.c. it didn't work on my depression but i did not gain weight.Hello. I've been on 15mg of Remeron for ~2 weeks now. For the first few days I was heavily sedated, which carried over to the mornings. After taking the pill earlier in the evening I was able to avoid this, and now that effect is gone. However, I was shocked to notice that I've put on 5 lbs. in this timeframe. For me, that is a lot. I also tend to feel bloated after eating, as if I am a glutton. The benefits have been desireable so far, so the weight gain isn't such a problem. I've also been noticing that my workouts at the gym feel more difficult to finish; like I'm weaker on this med. Has anyone else experienced this?
Posted by Elizabeth on June 15, 2001, at 17:10:47
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by Scotty on June 15, 2001, at 15:18:25
I took Remeron for about a month, starting at 30 mg and increasing that rapidly to 60 mg. I did not gain weight or experience increased appetite. I have gained weight on other psychotropic drugs, most notably Nardil and Marplan (but not Parnate). I also gained a small amount of weight on Zyprexa. In all cases, the weight gain was associated with increased appetite.
I also have found that hydroxyzine (Atarax, Vistaril), a very strong antihistamine that has both central and peripheral actions (as opposed to the newer antihistamines such as Zyrtec and Claritin), often gives me the munchies.
I think the antihistaminic effect is responsible for most of the weight gain that is seen with Remeron. A lot of the tricyclics, especially amitriptyline and doxepin, cause weight gain related to H1 blockade as well.
Remeron may also cause fluid retention and edema for some people. Although hyperprolactinemia is a e risk of some psychotropic drugs (notably, most antipsychotic drugs), Remeron apparently doesn't cause increased prolactin secretion (at least, a single dose of it doesn't).
-elizabeth
Posted by pellmell on June 16, 2001, at 19:19:03
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by Scotty on June 15, 2001, at 15:18:25
Hello. I've been on 15mg of Remeron for ~2 weeks now. For the first few days I was heavily sedated, which carried over to the mornings. After taking the pill earlier in the evening I was able to avoid this, and now that effect is gone. However, I was shocked to notice that I've put on 5 lbs. in this timeframe. For me, that is a lot. I also tend to feel bloated after eating, as if I am a glutton. The benefits have been desireable so far, so the weight gain isn't such a problem. I've also been noticing that my workouts at the gym feel more difficult to finish; like I'm weaker on this med. Has anyone else experienced this?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >I've been on Remeron for a month now, 30mg for the first three, and 60mg this week (I increased my dose because I wasn't feeling any sort of an antidepressant/anxeity effect. More on that later). I don't work out much, but I do walk all the time, and I've been having to drag computers all over the place in my job recently. I do feel significantly weaker on Remeron. In fact, I've felt less coordinated, too. When I walk I trudge more than I used to. Bleh. And I'm pretty sure I've gained some weight. Fortunately at 6'2ish and currently at a "normal" BMI I hide it well.
I haven't felt a significant antidepressant effect even at 60mg, and the sedation hasn't yet gone away. For me Remeron's antidepressant/antianxeity effect is not nearly as profound the SSRIs or Effexor...and god, I think I need that kind of effect. Even after three weeks I was so anxious that my resting heart rate at one point (six hours after my last caffienated whatever) was 110 beats per minute. damn. I didn't know I was that *physically* anxious.
I think I've given Remeron an adequate trial. Effexor made me feel so much better, but I quit after the trial pack because of the sexual side effects and a feeling that my symptoms were mild enough that I could afford to play around with my meds. I think I'm going to call my pdoc on Monday and ask for another one of those Effexor sample packs...I'll deal with the side effects.
Then I can start posting one one of those undead Effexor threads. "This is the thread that doesn't end..."
Lamb Chop will be proud.
-pm
Posted by queenb on June 20, 2001, at 7:19:50
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by Scotty on June 15, 2001, at 15:18:25
> > > > I was on Remeron for two days and decided that I could not hang with it. I have a very busy and active schedule. Remeron made me extremely tired the next morning and dizzy. I was unable to even speak to anyone. Basically, I was a walking zombie. I didn't like the medicine.
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 20, 2001, at 8:37:31
In reply to Re: Does anyone not gain weight on Remeron?, posted by queenb on June 20, 2001, at 7:19:50
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Mirtazapine-side-effects.html :
From: maniac3@webtv.net (Jim Glover, M.D.)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Mirtazapine weight gain"In Europe where starting doses of 60 mg HS are routine, weight gain is not much of a problem."
Posted by Scotty on June 20, 2001, at 9:14:16
In reply to The Bottom Line on Weight Gain with Remeron, posted by SalArmy4me on June 20, 2001, at 8:37:31
> http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Mirtazapine-side-effects.html :
>
> From: maniac3@webtv.net (Jim Glover, M.D.)
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 21:29:54 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Mirtazapine weight gain
>
> "In Europe where starting doses of 60 mg HS are routine, weight gain is not much of a problem."
Hello again; This past weekend I went to the 30mg dose and the extreme hunger seems to have subsided. However, I am again feeling sedated, and last night had wild dreams. On top of this my muscles feel weakened and joints are sore. I've decided to go off of it. The negatives are outweighing the positives for me. I wish everyone well with this med. By the way, does anyone have any comparison of Remeron against Celexa?
Posted by AC on June 22, 2001, at 13:05:07
In reply to Re: Remeron , posted by Lois on April 26, 2000, at 16:36:52
I am new to Remeron. It's been 1 week. Do the mind dulling effects of this med ever quit along with the sedation? (On 30mgs at night) I barely want to leave the house.
Also, BTW, my sex drive has increased and it is much easier to achieve orgasm (I am a male). Before it took forever! Sleep is good, but I am groggy all day. Thus far, though, the side-effects are far better than the SSRI's.
Posted by SalArmy4me on June 24, 2001, at 20:55:08
In reply to Re: Remeron , posted by AC on June 22, 2001, at 13:05:07
Once you get to 45 mg, the sedation will no longer be a problem.
> I am new to Remeron. It's been 1 week. Do the mind dulling effects of this med ever quit along with the sedation? (On 30mgs at night) I barely want to leave the house.
>
> Also, BTW, my sex drive has increased and it is much easier to achieve orgasm (I am a male). Before it took forever! Sleep is good, but I am groggy all day. Thus far, though, the side-effects are far better than the SSRI's.
Posted by ItzaSecret on March 10, 2002, at 13:15:21
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by Jo on March 22, 2000, at 15:39:20
I injured my neck severely 2 years ago, and have had difficulty sleeping due to pain. I have been taking Remeron, 45 mgs, plus 150 mgs of Trazadone, and the combination of the two medications does allow me to sleep. I wake up groggy in the morning from the combination, but it is worth it to me, as I spent six days and nites without sleep. As a result of the lack of rest, I suffered a seizure. My doctors realized at that point that I truly needed a sleep aid. Remeron on it's own did not allow me sleep, but the combination of it with Trazadone has. Unfortunately, I must be one of the persons that endures the side effect of constantly being hungry, and I have gained approximately 20 pounds in the last six months. I am just learning this is a side effect of Remeron, and I find it a terrible side effect, as I've always been slender, and now carry more weight than I have ever carried. I hate it, and am miserable weighing so much, and fully intend on speaking to my doctor about the possiblity of finding a new sleep aid instead of Remeron.
> > > > > Can anybody tell me of their experience on Remeron? Specificly, is it really as sedating as many say it is? What about weight gain? Thanks.
> > > I have been on 30mg. for some time; gained 10 lbs but no more; sleep very well but slow to wake up; at first had a high degree of irritability but that seems to have passed; experimented with 45mg to good results, i.e. higher level of energy and interest; have also in the past taken Paxil and Well-Butrin Sr. and prefer the Remeron. Hope this helps.
>
> I was gaining alot of weight on the remeron so I told my Dr. I wanted to increase the dose, that I had read that at increased doses,appetite and weight gain side effect is decreased. He laughed and told me that this was just a way the company that manufactures remeron gets you to spend more money on the drug and said there was absolutely no correlation between an increased dose and decreased side effects. I don't know if he is right or wrong but I thought it was interesting that he said that. I have tried 15, 30, and 45 mg. doses, and still want to eat all of the time. I never had a problem with my weight before now so I am going to just stop taking it. It really helped with my insomnia... for the first time in my life, I slept through the whole night. It's too bad that the weight gain was so terrible (is still, I haven't stopped it yet)
Posted by beardedlady on March 10, 2002, at 13:51:35
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by ItzaSecret on March 10, 2002, at 13:15:21
Itza:
Have you tried Serzone? I couldn't sleep on Trazodone alone and had to use Xanax to help. Still, it pooped out after a month. I was trying to go off Serzone (I have insomnia due to post-pregnancy stuff and three deaths and more stuff) because of the liver warning and asked my doc about Remeron. He said that it would make me very fat and miserable.
Serzone does not cause much grogginess, unless I've simply gotten used to it, and it's supposed to be weight neutral (I think it makes me gain, but doc says Remeron would be way worse). It is definitely free of sexual side effects.
I don't know if this is right for you, but if your miserable, ask your doc what he thinks.
bearded lady : )>
Posted by LyndaK on March 12, 2002, at 1:09:28
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions » ItzaSecret, posted by beardedlady on March 10, 2002, at 13:51:35
I'm glad I came back to browse. This is a good thread on Remeron. I just started on it this past weekend. My pdoc told me to wait until Friday to start it because it would make me real drowsy at first. Good thing he warned me! Reading the above posts have restored my confidence enough to take my dose (30mg) tonight. I've been super dizzy in addition to feeling drowsy. The dizziness makes me too nervous to drive. I'm supposed to go to work tomorrow but I may not make it in because of this side-effect. Hopefully it will go away with time. It has also increased my appetite (literally overnight!) but I figure I can control what I put in my mouth.
Wish me luck!
Lynda
Posted by ItzaSecret on March 12, 2002, at 9:15:02
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by LyndaK on March 12, 2002, at 1:09:28
I have ALWAYS been able to control what I put in my mouth, weighing in at a slight 112 pounds for 52 years.....thx to Remeron, I now weigh 150 pounds after only four months of being on the medication....I hate it! A short visit with my doctor yesterday ended up with Remeron being removed and replaced by Effexor.
Posted by JaneB on March 12, 2002, at 9:31:46
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by ItzaSecret on March 12, 2002, at 9:15:02
I have NEVER been a big eater but Remeron gave me uncontrollable munchies. I felt so good on it until I started swelling all over. I was also switched to Effexor. The experience gave me a compassion for people who overeat continually. It made me think there must be a glitch in their brain. JaneB
Posted by ItzaSecret on March 12, 2002, at 10:44:24
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by JaneB on March 12, 2002, at 9:31:46
I also have suffered from the swelling/bloating, as well as weakness of body, being groggy all day long, and it isn't fun. Even after just one day of not taking the Remeron, I feel so much more like myself again it is unbelieveable....I wished I hadn't waited for four months before researching the side effects of Remeron.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 11:54:55
In reply to Re: General Remeron Questions, posted by ItzaSecret on March 10, 2002, at 13:15:21
Remeron - a love/hate story. I love Remeron. It's the only AD I've been able to stay on and feel like I'm getting better. I'm also taking lithium because the Remeron alone was pooping out (as do all AD's). The combo is behemoth-city! You think Remeron alone makes you want to munch - you should try it with lithium! I find myself at the fridge door late at night praying some fat fairy left a huge chunk of chocolate cake for me. I do think more exercise would help, but it used to be that the amount of exercise I normally get was plenty. No longer. I'm going to put out a new thread asking (pleading) if anyone has any drugs that work, cause willpower just ain't working and I can't take any other AD. - Barbara
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