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Re: This was a rhetorical question everyone » ClearSkies

Posted by alexandra_k on November 5, 2005, at 21:04:50

In reply to Re: This was a rhetorical question everyone » alexandra_k, posted by ClearSkies on November 5, 2005, at 20:20:51

> > But I don't see how considering it a 'disease' helps.

> > Actually, I don't care one way or the other.

> This is an issue I have with this thread. I read that you don't care one way or another, and I wonder, why did you even question whether addiction is a disease or not if you don't care?

I care about the nature of addiction.
I care about how people move on from their addictions.
About how people recover...
About whether recovery is possible...
Those considerations are considerations that come to bear on the 'is it is disease or not' controversy. In considering the arguments and points from both sides... I find I can be more informed and thus am more likely to come to a tenable view of things for myself rather than just passively absorbing the indoctrinations of one camp (which is what happens unless you take a look at the other side as well)

I don't care whether the party line is that it is or is not a disease. The answer to the question of whether it is a disease or not is wholey determined by the way in which one chooses to define the concept of disease.

The benefit to looking at the views of those who consider it to be a disease AND the views of those who consider it not to be a disease is that one is better able to get a grip on the points of controversy. What I find... Is that I agree with the 'disease' people on some points, and I agree with the 'non-disease' people on others.

What that does is it presents me with a range of information so I am better able to reach an informed view not so much on whether it is a 'disease' or not (I personally don't give a sh*t about the label) but because one is better able to reach an informed view on the nature of addiction itself.

That is the point. Because in reading about different views one is more likely to hear the best arguments / considerations on both sides which means... One has the material to construct ones own view.

Make sense?

> For the sake of argument and debate, I am guessing.

I thought I had addressed this already...
Thats a 'guess' aka an 'assumption'
please don't.

> considering addiction as a disease gives me the ammunition I need to conquer it.

I thought one couldn't conquer it... All that was to be done was to 'manage' it...

> I can change my habits, my diet, my thinking, my environment (up to a point); and I understand that if I choose to revert, for any length of time, back to the behaviours I practised when I was in active addiction, that it will, undoubtedly, happen again.

'Undoubtedly'? Is it about that... Or is it more abotu the point that it is simply not worth the risk. Because if you do that then the cravings are so very much likely to get worse and thus you are so very much more likely to revert?

I say this because if that is your view...
Then if you think this is the nature of addcition...
Then your line seems to be that it would be IMPOSSIBLE for someone who was once addicted to ever become a moderate user.
You might want to think abotu whether you really want to commit yourself to that view...

So you think that IF addiction is a disease THEN there is some justification for your view. What I would like to add is that your view would be just as justified IF addiction wasn't called a 'disease'. I don't see what calling it a 'disease' buys us.

The reason I don't like to call it a disease is because of the points I have already stated.

The reason some people won't consider it is not a disease is because they believe then it must be 'all in the head'. But... A broken leg can be a serious health problem. It is not 'all in the head'. And yet... It is not a disease.

> Unfortunately, I have proven this, time and again. Each time my health has been at greater risk. I understand that this is a disease that will kill me if I don't treat it as an adversary.

Okay. But is it the 'disease' that would kill you... Or is it the drinking that would kill you? Drinking too much is an adversary indeed...

> Alexandra, I do not enjoy debate.

I do. And I like to debate sometimes. The reason WHY I like to debate is because considering things from lots of perspectives, hearing about the best reasons / arguments for different views mean I am better able to reach tenable and informed views myself.

If you don't enjoy debate then maybe that is becasue 'debate' means something different for you?

If 'debate' means something negative to you...
Then please don't be quick to assume I am *only* intending to do this... Please don't be quick to assume that I even *partly* intend to do this.

>I also choose not to censor what I can and cannot read on this site,

That is your choice.
But I would prefer you to not read my posts if you are likely to feel upset in response. Most especially if you might be tempted to make assumptions etc in response...

> I think it may be wise for you to consider that your words here are read by all, and that what is perhaps intended as debate is not necessarily how it is interpreted.

I don't think it is intended as debate in the sense in which you are thinking of 'debate'.

How is it interpreted?
No...
How are you interpreting it?

Do you think your interpretation is fairly much inevitable?

Or... is something else going on...

 

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poster:alexandra_k thread:575263
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/subs/20050914/msgs/575784.html