Posted by jojo on November 8, 2001, at 10:23:04
In reply to Re: Depression and Free Will, what about Karma?, posted by wendy b. on November 8, 2001, at 9:23:39
> > I'm still "damned if I do: or "damned if I don't". - Cam
>
>
> Now THAT'S depressed! :-]
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> Still, this philosophical and religious question could also be answered by the Buddhist concept of karma. The core philosophy is the concept of inner transformation (achieving Buddha-hood), based on the belief that our thoughts, words, and actions have influence beyond their immediate context, that affect a vast and complex web of life. Which is a kind of determinism... The transformation each individual makes will contribute to the "harmony and healthy development of society." All of this is dependent on the worldview of interrelation, "where all things in the realm of humanity and nature are dependent upon each other for their existence and nothing can exist in isolation."
> (from "Living Buddhism" magazine, Aug. 2001)
>
> A friend of mine who gave me a subscription to this magazine, is a Buddhist belonging to a particular sect, the Soka Gakkai International, which believes in the teachings of a 13th-century sage named Nichirin Daishonin. She's a very urbane New Yorker, very high-energy, very productive, very in-your-face and direct. Part of what this sect does as a daily practice is chanting an invocation (it's a Japanese phrase- Nam-myoho-renge-kyo) as a universal practice for attaining enlightenment. The Tibetan Buddhists chant, other sects do too. Anyway, this friend wants me to start to chant, she says it will help me in many ways. I even mentioned it to my therapist, who says it *will* help - she meditates and gets deep body massages, stuff like that, so she's very into finding "peaceful" states of mind/body, etc. and believes that will help with the depression. My friend keeps plugging the chanting, I've chanted with her, it IS very peaceful and head-clearing. (Note to the movie buffs reading this: Tina Turner chants and is a member of this sect, she's portrayed chanting in the autobiographical movie about her, can't remember the title, I think, "What's Love Got to Do With It")
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> Some of this I can grasp, but it's still a belief system that doesn't answer why there is war, or why people hate each other and kill, or why humans developed the atom bomb. And neither do Christianity nor Judaism. They all seem to me to be based on a life here and a life hereafter (in some form or other, whether or not we become re-born or reincarnated). And that how we life in this life affects the quality of life in the next.
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> So doesn't the question of free will or determinism come down to: either: 1) what I do in this life has consequences and/or influence, or 2) nothing I do affects the course of my life or anyone else's?
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> I still don't know which I believe to be true. I guess both, depending on how depressed, existential, whatever, I may be at any given time. Maybe that's one of my problems: I wobble about big issues like this. I have no "bottom line" faith in anything... But I do keep plugging away, looking for some kind of enlightenment...
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> meandering-ly yours,
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> Wendy"So doesn't the question of free will or determinism come down to: either: 1) what I do in this life has consequences and/or influence, or 2) nothing I do affects the course of my life or anyone else's?"
Everything you do in life has consequences, and effects the course of your life and that of others. It's just that what you do is determined by your "state" at the time you do it. Do the best that you can. How hard you try is also determined. Act as if you have Free Will, but try to see the actions of others as being Determined. This will help you to understand why they act as they do, and possibly modify their behavior. It will also help to remove feelings of guilt for your failures.
"In walking, just walk.
In sitting, just sit. Above
all, don't wobble."Yun-Men
poster:jojo
thread:13483
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20011105/msgs/13656.html