Posted by akc on August 15, 2001, at 10:18:31
In reply to Re: secular group » akc, posted by calla on August 14, 2001, at 0:53:29
> Choose a "God of your understanding"? What about atheists? As you can probably tell, it irks me the way 12-step programs are often forced on people as if they were the only or best alternatives when they are really not for everyone. They pretty much have a monopoly in the self-help/support group arena and people just assume they are better because of that. Is there any data to support that they are more effective than, say, an SOS type program? (I'm just venting about this--hope you don't mind.)
>calla,
I do not mind, at all! I poked around the net a little to see what studies I could find, but did not have the patience to locate any research on the effect 12 step programs have on recovery. I remember from when I went to treatment being told that research showed that people who participated in 12 step programs had a greater chance of staying sober than those who did not. The program I went to is pretty reputable, so I don't think it was bs they were feeding us. The big point being made is that you stood a better chance with AA than without. I want to think it was with the support of AA than without the support. And therefore any type of group that is offering support, like SOS or others, would be just effective. But I know of no research to back this up.
However, I do know that people in the program think they are god themselves -- they can be worse than the most fanatical type of religion -- my way or hell. That it is AA itself that is the magical trick. That the 12 steps and the Big Book are religious program inspired by God and if you do what it says, God is going to keep you sober.
I've had to be very selective in the meetings I attend to find one's that are not so big book thumpers that I feel totally isolated and alone. And I have been fortunate to find people in the program that don't find it necessary to beat me over the head with every other word that I have to get god or get out.
It is very hard in certain parts of the country for any other types of groups to even get started. There is just a stigma to non-god groups -- KC is on the edge of the bible belt and it just makes it tough. The meetings around here all end with the Lord's prayer -- just drives me nuts. I have only found one other person in the two years I have lived here other than myself who does not join in the prayer. You know there have to be others that a) don't believe in a judeo/christian god and b) are offended by this prayer. But because of the group pressure, they go ahead and join in. You come into this very fragile, looking for help with a drinking problem, you want something different. If it is not there, you don't have the strength to start it at that point, and if you get sober with or without the help of AA, by the time you have the strength, you might not have the motivation.
Anyway, talk about going on and on. I understand your beef with 12 step groups. I do need to add a disclaimer. If there was a secular group in KC and if I was not under order to go to AA, I still probably would not go to the secular group -- I would probably not go at all or just go to Alanon. I don't think my path is going to lead me away from a concept of a higher power. I am just stuck right now at either trying not to believe or being very mad when I do believe.
Did any of this make sense?
AKC
poster:akc
thread:9358
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010812/msgs/9633.html