Posted by fallsfall on July 12, 2004, at 7:27:03
You said, above: PS: I've asked before, "If no one can succeed at getting well, why try"??? Wellness and freedom are possible.......!
There are differences between:
1. No one can succeed at getting well - F
2. Everyone can succeed at getting well - F
3. No one cannot succeed at getting well - F
3a. No one can "not succeed" (fail) at getting well - F
4. Everyone cannot succeed at getting well - T
4a. Everyone can "not succeed" (fail) at getting well - F
5. Some people can succeed at getting well - T
6. Some people cannot succeed at getting well - T
6a. Some people can "not succeed" (fail) at getting well - T
7. No one can succeed at getting better - F
8. Everyone can succeed at getting better - F
9. No one cannot succeed at getting better - F
9a. No one can "not succeed" (fail) at getting better - F
10. Everyone cannot succeed at getting better - T
10a. Everyone can "not succeed" (fail) at getting better - T
[10b. Everyone must "not succeed" (fail) at getting better - F]
11. Some people can succeed at getting better - T
12. Some people cannot succeed at getting better - T
12a. Some people can "not succeed" (fail) at getting better - T
The TRUTH is the "No one" and the "Everyone" can succeed at getting well sentances (#1 and #2) are not true. It is NOT true that the entire population either can get well or cannot get well. Totalities, in these kinds of situations, tend not to be true - because each person is an individual.
I believe that it is also not true that the entire population can or cannot get "better" (#7 and #8).
Similarly, it is not true that not any individual cannot get well or better (#3 and #9) - you, yourself, have disproved those two.
I have just added the "a" statements to clarify the difference between "cannot succeed" (is not capable of succeeding) and "can not succeed" (is capable of failing). I leave it to the reader to determine why some statements are true, but their associated "a" statements are false. [But I haven't added the "b" statements (can vs. must) all the way through.]
It seems to me that you weaken your argument when you use a totality. Because most people know intuitively that totalities don't hold for human behavior. Just because it is true that "some one" can get well, doesn't mean that *I* can get well. Wellness and freedom are *possible* (for some people) - but not guaranteed.
I think that the strongest statement (for the purpose that I think that you have in mind) is: "Some people can succeed at getting better". This statement holds the most promise - there do exist people who can succeed at improving their situation. You might even try to argue for "Most people can succeed at getting better".
I have now used up my entire logical thinking capacity for the day, and it is 8:13AM.
Sincerely,
Falls, the Queen of Black and White. (also known as The Ice Cream Queen)
poster:fallsfall
thread:365237
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20040703/msgs/365237.html