Posted by fuzzymind on January 8, 2003, at 19:25:49
In reply to Re: Extremely bad luck with people » fuzzymind, posted by Eddie Sylvano on January 8, 2003, at 15:20:29
> It sounds like bullies have really made your life a misery. Sadly, the world will always contain such people. The only real way to deal with such people is to have an accurate preception of them and of yourself. What is it about bullying that bothers you the most? Is it that you value the particular bully's opinion, and want their approval? Is it the things that they say to you, and not so much the bully themself? Is it that other people witness it, and you don't want them to think less of you? Is it the simple fact that you can't stop them? It's important to figure out why this has affected you so.
Other people witnessing it a a biggie. I am festering with revenge, so I guess I am very angry that I never did anything to fight back effectively, or never told them to leave me alone. I wasn't forceful enough. I was an emotional punching bag.
> It's invaluable to understand the mind of the bully. There's no denying that it hurts when people say bad things about you, but it's important to consider the source and the situation. Consider the opposite situation... What if you'd had a roommate who complimented you on every single thing you did and thought? It might sound ideal, but try to imagine hearing about how great you were day in and day out. Would you put a lot of emotional weight behind what they were telling you? Would you believe them? Feel like a king? For most people, it would become annoying. The situation isn't much different, logically, than being criticized constantly. Someone is continually telling you what you're worth. The difference is that you're much more accepting of the idea that you're flawed, and criticism will always galvanize you in that belief.
>I have considered their viewpoint. Jealousy, racism, seeing me as aweak prey on which to unload...an emotional punching bag. That jewish guy who was my only so called friend had a father who degraded and belittled him....like father like son. He would show me all the autographs in his yearbook and laugh at me. I know he was insecure, and had a neeed to dominate and criticiz me to feel better about his own loneliness and obtain powere for himself at his own expense. My anger comes from not beating him up, or just ignoring him, but I was so lonely, I didn't have anyone else to talk to. What also angers me, is that his predictive powers were accurate. Because of jelousy, he would put down my academic achievements and tell me the only reason I got into college was becasue of affirmative action. "They let a lot of you Orientals into Ivy League Schools becausee they have to fill their quotas"I got straight A's and almost 1500 on the SAT,s but he was telling me this bullshit.I was always a perfectionist, like him, and I was very insecure about my achievement because I didn't have social skills, and I had only one meaningful extracurricular activity. Becasue I didn't have a ton of friends or extracurriculars, I felt like a loser. What makes me so angry that this vermin could exploit evey insecurity in me.
I made the mistake of telling him one day that I didn't want to go on a school sponsored band trip becaseu I didn't know anyone. Well He convinced me to go, then spent the entire trip abusing me. On the bus, he wouldn't let purposely took up all the space with his legs , said "that is stupid' or "you look stupid" to everything I said or to anything I wore. Spent tothe entire trip to Canada like this...constatnly criticizing me. I am so angry I didn't have the guts to get an airplane back home when we reached our destination. At the destination, he then told me how he would become successful and his life calling , making lots of money like a greedy jew, was better than my life calling.Sorry, but that is what he is ..a moeny worshipping abusive jew. I am a racist myself I guess. I was trapped, but looking back, I was so angry I didn't just leave him there and go back home on an airplane. Maybe I shold have punched him. Why was I such a coward? Nazi boy had me over a barrel, he knew it, and he knew becasue I was so lonely and he was my only "friend" that I wouldn't sever contact with thim. I am so fucking angry I told my abuser that I was lonely and didn't know anyone. Can you beleive I did that? Yes...what a pathetic moron.
Now this guy is a wealthy investment banker, and I am nothing. I have seen this guy on tv while watching Mets and Knicks games because he has box seats and very good seats at Madison Square Garden.
You wanted to know why the bullying hurt me? Since I relive these incidents over and over again, and want to rescript what happened, I think it is because I wasn't "cool" enough to prevent him from saying these things in the first place, or when he did, I was able to nip it in the bud and just beat up this guy. Or just hang up the phone when he called me and wanted to criticze me, or ignore him completely, or tell him he was an abusive bully. Thoses words referring to him..abusive bully, didn't come to mind all those years ago. I only thought of associating words like that to him only a couple of years ago. Even though there wasn' physical violence, I believe I have PTSD. At the time these events happened, I didn't feel this anger...I was numb with depression and anxiety. I think it is called dissociation.Not entirely sure, but the depression acted as a shield. THese feelings of intense anger didn't surface until about 1 or 2 years after I dropped out of life. During college, I was busy studying and planning sucide...lol . They got a little more intense gradually, then really came out during therapy. My therapist unleashed a lot of bad memories and anger, but didn't now how to properly control them.
Your point about positive feedback is very interesting. I read something similar in Dr Burns' book Feeling Good. He posed the hypothetical of whether one would take the opinion ofa patient at a mental hospital seriouly if he told you that you were no good. Well the answer should be no, but for me it would be yes. I remeber in college , when I would walk down the street, sometimes homeless people would make remarks to me or a spanish guy would mutter chinko, or other students would mutter chink as I passed them by. I didn't know these people, but I was hurt by their remarks. I am desperate need of approval . Negative remarks by people I don't like hurt me when for a normal person, they should not. Why is this? A homless guy calling me a dork affects me, a group of black teenagers making racist mimicking sounds toward me, etc. It all comes down to me. I am seriouly considering going to my local Holoaust remebrance center, and trying to locate a Holocaust victim to find out how they were able to mentally survive their abuses.
I am also angry at myself for not figuring out I was depressed in college. DUh....I attempted sucide, wished I were dead all the time ,b ut didn't know I was depressed. The stigma against psychiatry is so strong, even someone who is desperate for help wouldn't evene consider it.
I only heard negative things
> > Therapy, medication, self help books, unleashing on forums hasn't worked. If only my parents had intervened when I slit my wrists in the bathtub 18 years ago.
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> I don't know your parents, but it's not surprising that they didn't intervene. Most parents don't have a clue what their kids feel or value from day to day. Given the parenting I've seen, I'm inclined to think that any parents that don't actively abuse you are better than average. Parents also have their own agenda for their kids that they feel will result in the best life for them. By this, I mean that they want what would be best for *them* if they were in your situation, because people usually think of everything in terms of themselves (it makes sense. What other experience does one have to inferr from?).
> If therapy, medications, and meditation haven't helped, there was probably something missing from them. Your root problems weren't being addressed. What you need is to believe differently about yourself, which is hard to do. If you believe that you're worthless, I wouldn't expect you to think otherwise without proof. The problem then, in broader terms, may be that you overlook or ignore such proof every day. The fact that you've been a perfectionist means that you give less credit to your own accomplishments than you would if your bully roommate had done the same thing. By definition, you'll never get anything perfect. You can do things well, though, like your good grades. They may not have impressed you, but I'm sure they were better than the majority of other students. If you find one thing about yourself to be proud of, own that pride, then identify another thing, and on and on, you'll have a more accurate take on yourself. You'll know when someone's comments about you, flattering or critical, are true or not. For that matter, look at the source of a comment. Is that person often wrong about non-fuzzymind related issues? Would you want to claim responsibility for what they say on a daily basis? If not, they're probably no better at understanding you than they are at understanding the rest of the world.
> It's hard to give yourself credit if you're not used to it. It certainly doesn't come naturally. You have to work at it, but the results are worth it. Ultimately, you're the only one who's looking out for you. Think of yourself as a project that you work on every day. Evaluate what you dislike about yourself, winnow out anything that you would consider a subjective opinion for someone else to have about themselves and work on improving anything tangible (physical form, clothing, behaviors that hinder you). Somewhere along the line you've taken a long detour away from feeling good about yourself, and your brain has learned incorrectly, formed the wrong connections, which is why you think the way you do. It took a long time to get this way, and will probably take just as long to "unlearn." Still, it can be done and you can do it. Get behind the home team for a change. What do you have to lose?
SOunds like a good plan. Extremely difficult to try. Been trying to talk back to negative thoughts, but the negative thoughts always win out. The bigget problem is that I don't have a medical degree or any other degree and a high paying job that goes with it. If I had a job, then I could work through this much easier. The examples given in Dr Burns Feeeling Good book are people who are in relationships, have very high paying jobs(DR Burns seems to relish in showing everyone how much money his patients make), or successful professionally. Wel I don't have that, and not having that is a big problem because I am Asian and Asians have one thing they can rely on to get ahead in life...education...which leads to good jobs. Also, I am a 33 year old virgin, never even kissed a woman or gone out on a date. Women never paid attention to me. well except to yell at me when I said hi to them...lol...no kidding...that actually happened in high school. If I were white..I am absolutely sure my thinkg would be different. But the problem is that according to a recent poll, I think around 40 percent, amaybe it was only 25 percent, but I am certain it is 40 percent of Americans don't like Asians.I am feeling a little better and plenty of what you say is in Burns' book...cognitive behavioral therapy. Too bad his website feeling good.com hasn't been updated since sept 2001.
I need around the clock interaction in some kind of treatment facility. a twice a week session with a therapist who has 40 patients a week is not the answer. I wish there were University sponsored research programs where someon like me could live there, with food and rent paid for by grants or such, and could recieve intense round the clock cognitive behavioral therapy. I don't really want to die,,,but I feel I have no choice if I don't imoprove soon.
poster:fuzzymind
thread:2175
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20021230/msgs/2184.html