Posted by Jost on July 22, 2006, at 16:42:26 [reposted on July 26, 2006, at 23:23:41 | original URL]
In reply to What I feel sums up the Mid East situation, posted by Jay on July 20, 2006, at 8:48:11
I'd like to respond to a line of commentary in the thread "What I feel sums up the Mid East"
First, Jay says ' I am shocked beyond belief at the *DEATH* in Lebanon, Iraq, and Afghanastan (sic), especially of the innocent civillians by "soldiers"'
To this, I ask:
I assume you are also shocked by the deaths of Israeli civilians, at the hands of suicide bombers, as they sit in cafes, markets, weddings?
The suicide bombers do not just decide one day to put on a vest of bombs and go to Israel. They are chosen, trained, and armed, and instructed where to go, by Hizbollah and Hamas.
There is, to this day, continuous shelling of Israeli towns near the Lebanese border, and the flying of unmanned drones, programmed to make as loud a noise as possible over towns in Israel to create as great a feeling of ongoing horror and dread (as specifically claimed by Nasrullah), by Hizbollah.
I'm going to assume Jay and all of you care about all innocents in any society. Yet when I read a sentence that excludes Israelis, I wonder: does Jay consider Israeli civilians, who, in case you've forgotten have offered peace agreements that have been rejected, to be less innocent than citizens of these other countries?
Then,
Jay refers to the God Shiva (pronounced "shee-vah") and destruction. The situation in the middle east reminds him of a passage from the Bhagavad-Gita.
Then there are a series of comments that I at first found mystifying. Phillipa says:
--->>"Sitting Shiva in the Jewish religion means destruction of the human I assume. So who is to blame over there?"
>>>Corafree says:
--->>"In my 'Webster's' shiv means knife. I guess that is a sword to the left of the sitting Shiva.
I guess it's what you believe 'being destroyed' means.
Nothing good can come from hate. But I don't like definition of meek (spiritless) either.
The people caught in the crossfire must feel so deserted and confused.
It's hard(?) to turn away. It's frightening to go with a long shot.
I'll pray to my God."
>>>
Gabbi-G pointed out that the God Shiva, and the phrase "sitting shiv'a" have nothing to do with one another.Dinah also offered an explanation of the phrase "sitting Shiv'a."
Thanks to both of you, for clarifying what happened in this thread and for making that distinction.
I can only infer that it was an assocation that, while perfectly possible in one's mind, is not possible etymologically. An innocent mistake, I'm sure.
I'd like to reiterate that there has been some sort of mistake in making any identification of the God Shiva (pronounced "shee-vah") with the custom of mourning, "sitting shiv'a" (pronounced "shiv-a"), in the Jewish Religion.
----There is No Connection Whatever, of Any Sort, between these two ideas.----
Sitting shiv'a has nothing to do with destruction of the human, or destruction in any form, or knives; the Jewish religion has nothing to do with destruction of the human, in any form, and the Jewish people not happy to be engaged in this conflict.
As a side point: Hizbollah stores their arms and builds their command centers in population centers, making it impossible for there not to be civilian casualties, in any even defensive campaign.This is called using 'human shields'-- and while I personally am not comfortable with the loss of human life of those who are used in this way-- I also believe that Hizbollah bears the ultimate responsibility for their deaths. Which does not justify anything other than the absolute greatest care and caution in bringing this about, on the part of Israel, it may make it inevitable.
But this is why there are so many civilian casualties in the current situation in Lebanon.
The following, for those who are interested, is the derivation of the Jewish phrase "sitting shiv'a":The word "SHIV-A" is from the Hebrew word for "SEVEN," and it refers to the seven day requirement of a type of mourning ritual after a death. That's all. Shiv'a means Seven. Period.
"Sitting Shiva" is spending SEVEN DAYS in seclusion, for immediate family members (parents, siblings, children) of the deceased person. They remain at home ("sit") because of their loss, and are visited by friends, relatives, and spiritual advisers (rabbi, cantor, other members of their synogogue), to allow them to carry out certain prayers at home, to take over ordinary tasks (such as meal preparation, etc), and to comfort them.
Note, to corafree: There is no "the" in the phrase "sitting shiv'a"-- one "sits shiv'a"-- or "is sitting shiv'a"--
I have two final questions:1. Is there anyone here who does not believe that Israel has the right to exist?
2. Is there anyone who believes that the Israelis, whatever their mistakes--and they have made some tragic ones-- are not, as a society--and of course, with exceptions, as there are in all societies-- as humane, enlightened, cultivated, and thoughtful as members of the other societies in the region, who also have made tragic mistakes that have brought us to this situation?
If so, I'd consider it very civil of you to tell me so, because I would rather know that I'm in the company of people who think so.
Jost
poster:Jost
thread:669484
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060610/msgs/670964.html