Posted by Gabbix2 on February 5, 2006, at 19:55:08
In reply to Re: » Gabbix2, posted by alexandra_k on February 5, 2006, at 16:57:40
> > That's it you know. I think when someone is seen as the underdog, someone who's been victimized and on the bottom of the world's shoe their entire life who lashed out and did something heinous, well let's forgive them.
> > But what about overfed, racist pompous political figures? Not so easy to forgive, or understand, but that ideal would have to apply to them too.
>
> I think a lot of that comes from the way we choose to describe them. If we see someone as 'victimised' or 'at the mercy of a horrible illness' or the 'victim of fate' or a 'victim of chance' then we feel better disposed to them.
>
> If we see them as 'overfed' 'racist' 'pompous' 'nasty' etc then we don't feel so well disposed to them.
>Well yes, but some people are racist, and some do take advantage, and some people have been victimized. It could all be one person.
And it could go on forever, so the people who "choose" to describe someone that way, don't really have a choice because according to determinism their choices are made because of genes and environment..
And the same would go for people who choose retributive justiceI know that you would probably argue that on a technicality, however your own posts show quite clearly how you feel about certain people, and things. I wonder if you would "choose" to feel differently about the way the U.S government is handling their power.
And that would mean that
> > If someone had decided to apply a little retributive justice to Idi Amin, or slave traders or those responsible for the Pent State killings, you wouldn't see me crying about it, and yet.. in accordance with that ideal, it's no different.
>
> Yep.
>
> I think... They know not what they do...
>
> Rawls... The Original Position, I think it is called...
>>
> If you were one of those pompous slave traders... Your father used to do it and you were raised thinking it is acceptable... That doesn't excuse your behaviour (how would you like to be in the position of one of your slaves?). But... It does go some way towards making it understandable / comprehensible...
>I didn't say I didn't understand how it could happen, I understand that very easily actually. What I said was, I wouldn't cry over a little retributive justice, and that stands, that was the sole point I was trying to make in my post.
> Regarding forgiveness... I always thought forgiveness was something you had to do for yourself. So you don't become consumed by rage / bitterness.
>That's not been my personal experience.
To me forgiveness is something more encompassing. I'd have to feel that it was the right thing to do, because things happen to people, and because of people that I will never understand, and I have to remain open to that possibility that some actions are uncontrollable.I could not bridge the gap between saying I have to do this for my own good, and then fool myself into believing it's helped me empathize with someone else's situation. It would have to be more heartfelt.
The other, doing it for myself, I would just call "acceptance"
>
poster:Gabbix2
thread:605722
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20060204/msgs/606706.html