Posted by femlite on January 14, 2004, at 11:25:57
In reply to Re: How to justify pagan roots?, posted by Simus on January 14, 2004, at 1:30:19
You obviously are devoted to God and his word.
Sorry to miss your point.
I think most Christian sects would share your feeling that the new covenant supercedes the old. The is little debte on that point.The original points of this thread were, who is Christ and how do we know he isnt a myth along the lines of Orisis, or just another creation myth. Somehow his place in the OT got into the disscussion.
I think most trinitarian Christians would agree, that as God is one, though the jews did not know Christ personally,in the old testement, He was nonetheless there.The Jews do still have a special role to play in the Gods story. It is believed they will be given special faith at the end. (i really should site the source, sorry).
> Sorry to all that I wasn't clearer in my earlier post. I will pull out my Bible and try to do better this time. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God," 2 Timothy 3:16 For those who don't believe in God, or that the Bible is the infallible authority, I don't have a philosophical answer for you.
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> I do believe that Jesus existed at the creation of the world, based on John 1:1-2 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God." I am not assuming that Jesus was the Word referred to here, but I am basing my belief on Revelation 19:13 that states, "He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." This is referring to Revelation 19:11 "Then I saw heaven opened , and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war." From Philippians 2:8-11, I would understand "The Word" referred to in Revelation to be Jesus. Philippians 2:8-11 states, "And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
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> "The Christ" (Greek) in the New Testament was "the Messiah" (Hebrew) from the Old Testament (both mean the same thing, "the Anointed One"). The prophets of the Old Testament looked forward to the arrival of the Messiah, which meant He hadn't come yet (or Jesus hadn't come as "the anointed one" yet). The New Testament Gospels tell of the arrival of the Messiah, or Christ. "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14 The Gospels make it clear that Jesus was the one anointed by God for the purpose of redeeming His people. At what point was Jesus anointed by God the Father for his mission on earth? I don't know. But he wasn't referred to as the "anointed one" in the present tense until the New Testament. Did Jesus walk on the earth during the time of the Old Testment? I would think He certainly could have, and probably did, but I can't take the word of Bible scholars. Even the great scholars can only speculate. Jesus is currently in Heaven at the right hand of the Father (Mark 16:19), a place of honor, "He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." But God did send the Counselor, the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name. (John 14:25-26) "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you." John 16:13-14 Jesus will come again (Revelation 19).
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> As for my beliefs on the Old vs New Covenants with God, my basis is Romans 8:2-4 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak throught he flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." My point in saying we now have a better Covenant with God is because it is based on the spilling of the innocent blood of His Son, the ultimate sacrifice. I never intended to imply that we are free to bypass the 10 Commandments, etc. Jesus made it clear that He searches the heart of man, and even a wrong thought is a sin.
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> So, sorry to be so "Word"y. I hope this made clearer what I was trying to say before.
poster:femlite
thread:297550
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040113/msgs/300620.html