Posted by Dog on December 15, 2003, at 15:55:51
In reply to Re: I do this every Christmas..... » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dena on December 15, 2003, at 15:01:43
i am a protestant, that is i look at Martin Luther's writings and the Reformation as a very meaningful, significant event(s) in Church History and i mean the whole Universal Church of Jesus Christ, not just a particular denomination, The Universal Church, which is "Catholic" but not Roman Catholic.. although there are members of the Roman Catholic Church who do belong to the Universal Catholic Church, there are some, i am sure, that do not...
having your name on some piece of paper means nothing unless there is committment and faith..i consider myself to belong to the Universal Catholic Church (like what the Apostles Creed says) because i have, to Jesus Christ, and to others, admitted i am a sinner, asked to receive Christ into my life, repented of my sins, and am growing every day in His Word, Love, and Spirit... i have been born again as a result of these and i highly recommend it to anyone...
as a Protestant, i resent it that someone would say that as a Protestant i view Mary as "just a normal sinful human", and/or "go overboard" to present her as so, in that the Bible clearly says she has had a very special place in Gods plan and to say that is wrong... however, i do not and will not pray to Mary because she cannot hear me and if i do, i am not honoring Christ because it is He who died for me and is my Lord and not Mary... this whole thing of who Mary is makes it very difficult for Protestants because there are some Roman Catholics who are trying to cause trouble and dissension by always accusing us of not being grateful for what she did...she is most honorable among women and to call her a "normal sinful human" is not of God... i have never ever heard anyone before now say that, that Protestants consider her in that way, and i think it is not of God and i demand that you take it back and apologize immediately! by saying this about protestants, that protestants say this, you are attempting to develop further schisms in the church... this is not of God, but of the devil...
i have studied Theology at the graduate level and am no neophyte when it comes to these things...i have studied the Bible in 4 different languages and preached it in two... i am not bragging...God has given me alot, and i have given nothing to Him in return and would be nothing without Him...I know God in a personal way and speak with Him continually...i have grown up in the Protestant Church (44 years), but have been a Believer for only 24 years, but i have never heard anything like this...I am sure, if you did hear it, that it was very isolated, and maybe only once because i have never ever heard anyone make such a remark!Dog
> Miss Honeychurch -
>
> I like what you said about Mary. I grew up Protestant (various denominations, as well as "nondenominations", being a military brat), & you're right, Mary is downplayed with them. They go overboard to present her as "just a normal sinful human". Sadly, so much of our rich church history was lost with the Reformation.
>
> I'm no longer Protestant (though I treasure much of what I've received from them) - I'm an independent Catholic (not Roman), & also Orthodox (though not formally Eastern Orthodox). I embrace all that the One Church (prior to any splits) held as truth for the first thousand years.
>
> I had to overcome my previously taught biases against Mary (& all things liturgical), in order to see her (& them) for the blessings that they are. I'm still learning about Mary. I'd like to know more about a relationship with her, & the comfort she brings. I especially like how she always points the way to her Son.
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> When I was having a hard time understanding the importance of her role, & why she should be venerated (not worshipped - venerated - they're different), someone shared an illustration with me that really helped.
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> In the Old Testament, we read of the Ark of the Covenant, which held symbols of God inside. It was so highly revered that people were killed for touching it wrongly. It's been lost for a long time now.
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> What if it were re-discovered? What if it went "on tour" - people of all faiths would flock to view it, & those who understood it's meaning would revere it with holy awe, because of the preciousness of the symbols of God within it.
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> Mary was another type of "ark", of the New Covenant. While she was pregnant with Jesus, she was carrying within her, not the symbols of God, but God Himself! How can we rightly NOT revere her?
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> I had to repent of my arrogance of dismissing her as just an ordinary woman. I've had my eyes opened to the role she plays in salvation. I had to learn how the early church, who knew her personally, revered her.
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> I no longer want to miss out on anything that God has for me in His Church - whether or not my mind can comprehend it.
>
> Shalom, Dena
poster:Dog
thread:289364
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20030908/msgs/290146.html