Posted by Dr. Bob on July 15, 2009, at 13:58:08
In reply to Re: Eample Apology Request, posted by Nadezda on July 14, 2009, at 10:50:37
> And the purpose is to prevent being blocked, right?
>
> There are some SUPER sensitive people here. I might post something that is civil per guidelines. But someone might find it hurt their feelings. So they may request that I apologize to them.
>
> Now, *I'm* gunna feel bad...or even mad!! So, then I'm gunna request they apologize for making me feel bad, implying my post was uncivil, etc,....repeat cycle.
>
> It's all a bit nutty to me.
>
> BayYes, I suppose it could get kind of nutty!
If a post is uncivil, then one purpose could be to help the poster avoid a block. But feelings can be hurt even if a post is civil. In that case, the purpose would be different.
So it doesn't guarantee that feelings won't be hurt, but it certainly helps if requests for apologies are civil. Which is why discussing them might be useful.
--
> I don't know. It's pretty complex when it gets down to people's feelings.
>
> I've never liked the idea of a forced apology. I never made my kids apologize. Because what if someone ISN'T sorry.
>
> KathIt's complex, all right!
I'm not proposing that anyone be forced to apologize. We're talking about apology requests, not apology demands.
--
> My alternative suggestion is that Administration provide a safe environment for people to post their most private thoughts, or be playful and open, without fearing that incivility towards them will be tolerated.
>
> I don't understand how the proper course of action should be to ask someone who has been hurt by unprovoked incivility to respond with a request for an apology or a statement of how they feel.
>
> I know you have said that you are not *asking* posters to respond this way. ... Your suggestions lead to third party posters, instead of empathizing with the hurt poster, have the expectations that what is desirable is to refrain from reporting, to express your feelings, and to ask for an apology, and to accept one graciously.
>
> Somehow "Please do stay" unaccompanied by "but don't hurt others" is interpreted by me at least as "Please do stay and continue as you are."
>
> Dinah> this new policy of expecting the hurt perso--or others-- to request in a civil way some sort of apology-- or otherwise to intervene to help the person who's been uncivil-- seems too great a burden.
>
> Moreover, it takes the responsibility for the incivility and its redress away from the uncivil poster and diffuses it among the community.
>
> Moreover in the instance we have here ... people were preoccupied by Verne's plight and really ignored the incivility that he had enacted-- and the person who was the subject of his words. ... The direction of this change in policy seems to put the enactor in the spotlight, as someone who is not being adequately helped, when the other person becomes someone who hasn't helped enough.
>
> NadezdaI'd also like it to be safe here. We share that goal. Being asked to apologize may lead posters to be more aware of the impact they can have on others, that may lead them to post more civilly and to be blocked less frequently, and that would make it safer here.
When I say "please stay", I assume it's understood that I mean "and follow the guidelines here", but maybe I should be more explicit.
Right, I'm not asking second parties to request apologies. That's above and beyond the call of duty.
As far as third parties, I don't see it as either-or. Depending on the particular hurt and uncivil posters, and circumstances, third parties may empathize with one or the other or both or neither. I'm trying to enlarge the spotlight to include an additional type of support. I'm not saying it's the only type that should be offered from now on.
I know that giving this type of support -- like giving other types of support -- could be a burden. One nice thing about being a community is that responsibility for support is diffused among the members. And is it too great a burden not to let a friend drive drunk?
Responsibility for an uncivil post is still the poster's. He or she is still the one who may be blocked.
Bob
poster:Dr. Bob
thread:905306
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090707/msgs/906879.html