Posted by alexandra_k on May 6, 2009, at 17:33:43
In reply to Re: Subject line change, posted by Dinah on May 6, 2009, at 17:04:04
I really do... Think he does think that. He seems to think that everyone can see when someone is posting in violation of his rules and he thinks that what a friend would do would be to point out to the person that what they have done is in violation and then try and persuade the person that what they have done is harmful to others and emotionally manipulate them into apologizing for what they posted and endeavor not to do it again. I really do think that that he what he thinks.
What he fails to see is that people do violate the civility rules as an act of civil disobedience. They do it to protest the rules. In the spirit of 'go on then punish me the way you think you are justified in punishing me' and then there it is on record as a counter-example to the thought that Bob does have some special insight into the nature of civility and respect.
Hard to think that the civility rules are about the ordinary notion of civility and disrespect when someone gets blocked for one year for posting 'sh*t' without an asterisk. To see that he does such things... Shows people how unsafe things are here. How arbitrary blocks can be (sometimes he will sometimes he won't). To show people how unfair the punishments can be (one year for that? how does saying f*rt without an asterisk harm vulnerable people here?)
He can do what he wants since it is his site. But if that is the way he views it (my way or the highway) then he owes it to people to be honest about this and to stop playing fr*gg*ng games pretending that it is about something other than that.
Socrates friends railed against the laws (because they genuinely thought they were arbitrary and that the punishment was too harsh). Not saying that is what a friend HAS TO do but I do think that that is a viable way of showing friendship. Note: They didn't protest merely out of a gesture of friendship where they really secretly thought that the laws were okay and they hoped they would stay the same. Bob seems to think that that is what protest is about here. Socrates friends genuinely thought a change to the laws was in order. It is true that the persecution of a friend really brought the unfairness of the interpretation of the laws to their attention, however (sure they didn't think corrupting the young was acceptable - that isn't the issue). Of course some of Socrates other friends might well have thought that the interpretation of the law was okay and that really Socrates should have altered his behavior (stopped questioning the young). I suppose a friend could think that. Still, seems that friends aren't required to do that. Indeed... I think friendships are likely to be strained when there is such fundamental disagreement.
There was another option for Socrates. He could have left the state once it became clear to him that he was going to be persecuted for being himself. Yeah, he made people feel uncomfortable sometimes. But he wasn't malevolently motivated. Don't know what he was like when talking about emotional matters but not so hard to imagine him being sensitive to the feelings of others while simultaneously persisting in asking the hard questions... People could have chosen not to interact with him, I suppose. I think... It is time for me to go. I don't think people should be uncivil or disrespectful to one another. I do think... That what I think civility and respect requires is different from Bob's such that I could be blocked at fairly much any time he feels like it. I... Refuse to change my posting style. I always was willing to help sort things out if people expressed they were hurt with me. Maybe not as fast as Bob would have liked... But I did my best with that. If that isn't within the spirit of civility well... So much for whatever it is that civility means here.
I do have IRL communities that accept me for who I am. The community here well... Could be blocked at any time, really. I realize that that is making me less likely to accord with my own notion of what civility and respect requires than I was before I came here. So... Time for me to move on. For my own mental health. I know you are a good friend Dinah. I know I similarly supported Dr Bob when I thought I could see where he was coming from. Trouble is that certain things glare at me (Zen got one year for saying 'sh*t' in a heartfelt post where she was really struggling with a great deal). He... Never apologized for that. He never thought that one year blocking was too harsh for that. I... Can't respect a person who thinks that that is okay. And... He hasn't really changed. So... I need to hold on to what I think civility and respect require and... Move on from here. That is basically what I need to do.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:888433
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/894516.html