Posted by Larry Hoover on June 2, 2006, at 8:30:14
In reply to How about changing the, posted by NikkiT2 on June 2, 2006, at 2:51:12
> or, "I think the world would be a better place without Buddhism"
> So, you see where I am going. I, personally, don't believe it awfully civil to say you think the world would be a better place without *anything*.
>
> Sorry, but I agree that how ever hard Estella was trying, it was not a civil statement.
Good job, Nikki!You've done a much better job of bringing the issue out, than I did with the butter tarts analogy. I just picked from the wrong groups of images.
I'm going to want to think about this, because we need to find a way to make this concept generalizable or describable, or all this navel-gazing will again be for nought. Because if we can't lay out some guideline principles, with examples to teach from, then we've failed. If the student hasn't learned, the teacher hasn't taught.
A rule must be simple enough to learn that it will protecte you when you don't yet understand the nuances of the rule. In other words, if you follow the rule literally, you cannot fall afoul of one of its idiosyncracies. That's what brings me anger here. Here we have an intelligent sensitive being, trying extremely hard to accomodate a rule that she cannot discern, in this instance. Her efforts were profoundly civil, but she was blocked anyway. Notwithstanding the civility rule, her efforts should have protected her.
I stand by my earlier decision though. What Estella said is not equivalent to e.g. the buddhism or jew comparators.
She was speaking at a different level entirely. It could only be uncivil if it was misunderstood.
I have been struggling all along to make my point, because I can't say it here. Do you all grasp that? My idea is uncivil in this realm, yet it is not uncivil at all.
The ruling is consistent with this realm. But that does not address the fact that good and kind people are being hurt by this. If that didn't happen, I'd happily live with the rule. You see? It's the very real damage being done that is the issue.
I see where the line is, but good people are getting harmed by where the line is.
What about the option of formally withdrawing a statement, because of this stalemate between the two equally passionately held views of human existence?
As it stands now, once uttered, it's off with your head......unless you can utter the magic phrases that make the offense go away.
You know? The solution I/she all the rest have been offered is nothing more than a ritual. Say it this way, and the block goes away......
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:646675
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20060525/msgs/651824.html