Posted by jay2112 on November 26, 2022, at 15:15:55
In reply to Re: p.s. Suicide and antidepressants » jay2112, posted by linkadge on November 26, 2022, at 10:30:45
> I agree. Not to be too conspiratorial, but there are still major issues in the way that clinical trials are conducted, who is overseeing it, and what data is ultimately disclosed.
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> I trust some of the older drugs more because they were discovered serendipitously rather than through some purposeful engineered planning that has more to do with maximizing profits than trying to improve severe depression. The SSRIs were money makers not because they helped severe depression, but because they were tolerable enough to feed to the masses and provided some needed emotional anesthesia for the everyday destressed patient.
>
> On another note ... GSK has studies showing that 10mg of paroxetine was virtually as effective as 20mg (about 98% as effective) yet the 20mg dose was ultimately perused because ... (maybe they knew it would be harder to discontinue??) and hence helping to crystalize future profits?
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> LinkadgeGood points! I am not any Szaz, or a conspiracy prone alarmist, but much info is coming out after the original marketing of the first ssri's. If they would just be 100 percent truthful, then drug companies would have a better image, I think. If drugs are used responsibly and properly, I think everyone would come out ahead.
Many antidepressants, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, benzo's, can be some of the most successful tools out there. But, when you know more than your doctor, or even pdoc, I think we have a right to advocate for ourselves. Because, it boils down to, YOU are more aware of how any med affects you. I use a bit of science...in that I record precisely how each and ever med I have been on affects me.
Anyhow, I'd HIGHLY recommend "Better Than Well?: The Most Important Question Facing Psychiatry"
by Paul J. Fitzgerald. You can get a free trial (Normally 10 bucks a month) subscription at scribd.com and read the e-book. You will learn very modern, cutting edge research on all psychiatric drugs, especially the behaviours they produce.Here are some interesting passages:
Regarding the subjective effects of antidepressants, how is the experience of bet- ter than well, or different from well, described by people who have taken these drugs, in addition to the comments of Kramers patients described earlier? Eliz- abeth Wurtzel, in her famous memoir Prozac Nation, wrote the Prozac didnt make her happy, just not sad. Lauren Slater, in her beautifully written memoir Prozac Diary, suggested that Prozac is Zen medicine in helping relieve her symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder. Stephen Braun, author of The Science of Happiness, a book that did not receive nearly as much attention as it deserved, observed that the antidepressant Wellbutrin heightened his interest in the opposite sex, and also decreased his desire to consume drinks that contain caffeine or alcohol"
Another interesting bit:
" For example, a placebo controlled study (which is a study where some people receive drug and others merely receive an inactive pill, and the persons arent aware of which treatment they were given) in which the SSRI Lexapro was given to healthy persons found that it altered moral judgments. These persons were presented with hypothetical moral dilemmas, where they were asked, for example, if they would allow an innocent person to be killed if it would save five other lives? Enhancing serotonin with Lexapro made the people in the study more likely to judge harmful actions as forbidden, but only for emotionally salient hypo- thetical harms. Another placebo controlled study of Lexapro in healthy persons examined the drugs effect on social interaction with a roommate in an apartment over several weeks, as well as subsequent interaction with a stranger. On drug, the persons were rated as less submissive by their roommates, showed a dominant pattern of eye contact and were more cooperative in interacting with the stranger in a role playing game. A third placebo controlled study of Lexapro, in healthy fe- males, where drug was given transiently in an intravenous manner, found that Lexapro selectively enhanced recognition of facial expressions of fear and happi- ness presented on a video monitor, without affecting recognition of other emo- tions. In this short-term study, Lexapro did not affect measures of mood."Anyhow....check the book out if you can!
Jay
Humans punish themselves endlessly
for not being what they believe they should be.
-Don Miguel Ruiz-
poster:jay2112
thread:1121118
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20220917/msgs/1121129.html