Posted by alexandra_k on February 12, 2021, at 13:34:33
In reply to Re: Who has gotten a Covid Vaccine Experiences?, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2021, at 17:57:25
I don't think we are having access to Moderna at all, in NZ.
Information last updated 10 February 2021 from NZ Ministry of Health:
We (NZ) currently have agreements with 4 suppliers:
Pfizer and BioNTech (two doses 'about two weeks apart')
Janssen Pharmaceutica (likely to be single dose)
Novovax (two doses, likey not available until until later)AstraZeneca (two doses fridge stable). Some reports may be ineffective for people over 65.
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opinion:1) I think that Pfizer and BioNTech and Moderna are both rna vaccines. That's a new technology that they are very very hopeful will be better than previous. So... Experimental. They might turn out to be a lot better... They might... But they might not. Or they might need some ironing out of things... For example... They seem to be unclear whether it would be better to get two doses to the people 2, 3, or 4 weeks apart.
I don't know enough about vaccinations to have an informed opinion (not even a guestimate) as to which of those is more likely to be a better idea for what kinds of people. I mean, I don't have a stabby guess of an estimate of 'if these things apply to you I'd lean towards 2 weeks and if these things apply to you I'd lean towards 4 weeks'. No idea. I suppose we are waiting to see what happens. Truth be told.
That's why it's being rolled out differently. An experiment. Experimental vaccines.
The New Zealand people are the only people who have been told that ours are not being rolled out under 'emergency' provisions because things are in the experimental stage. The New Zealand people are the only people being told that our government has undergone it's standard or usual or normal or typical approvals process because New Zealand does not have community transmission so we are not in a state of emergency. We are in no hurry -- it is just that our borders are locked down... In the sense that arrivals need 2 weeks in a detention facility / quarantine on arrival and numbers of them allowed in at one time... are very limited.
These are the first vaccines to become available. So... They are getting to the young healthy people who are agressive or assertive enough to get themselves right up there first right at the head of the cue. That is to say the people on the boards of directors of recent public-private hospital mergers... (I'm griefing on that -- ) And the front line border workers and the like. Fit, healthy people who are likely to be most resilient if the vaccine turns out to have unpleasant effects. Which it doesn't seem to have had.
With the Janssen and Novovax...
I don't know where different States are at with the roll-out...
Those are the older types or styles of vaccination. Again, looks like they aren't sure what dose to give. One dose -- or does there need to be a follow-up dose? So different people are being offered different things. So they can see what happens. See what seems most effective at the population level.
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The issue that I have with all this... Is the same issue that I have with drug trials and inofrmation about drugs very generally... That is to say:
I don't care if psychoanalysis is not effective for 99.9 per cent of the non-Jewish population. I care about whether psychoanalysis is right for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. So... What is it about the people who it is effective for? What features of them make it effective? People say 'we don't know until we do the experiments' and there is SOME truth to that. But there's also a lot of truth to an intelligent mind and vicarious knowledge / learning and educated guesses and clinical experience and common-sense...
In quite a few respects... I am an outlier. I have had people make very very wrong or bad decisions about what would be best for me on the basis of assuming or requiring me to be average or whatever...
So... With psychiatric medications, too... If a drug turns out not to be helpful for half or even two thirds of a population... I still care whether it will be likely to help me... So... What is it about the people it helped? IN virtue of what did it help them?
Often they exclude the people like me... Which make the studies nonsense, too. Exclude the old, the young, those with co-morbidities... It's complicated...
Then to get started on the issue of corrution in science. People making up data. All of that...
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I think...
You don't care about what I would do...You care about what I would do *if I were you*.
In some sense of you. I don't mean 'it would be better for ME if YOU did x or y or z'
But really...By some empathetic process... If I could really imagine my way into your shoes...
Your age... The relevant features of your medical history... Your immune response... If you have a strong healthy immune system... Or if it takes you a bit longer to recover from things... If you have tendancy towards under or over response, I mean to say...
(Not that I know how that impacts on ideal times between doses yet)...
That's the thing..
ANd it could be a trade-off between better immunity to Covid now vs problems longer term... It could possibly turn out to be better to be just a little protected over a longer haul.
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I don't know what I would do if I were you...
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I suppose when I am offered the vaccine I would like to take it.
But I don't trust the NZ health system.
Last time I presented to the ER for a physical complaint they did not listen and they involuntarily detained me and sectioned me under the mental health act for assessment withotu proper cause... Because they were bored that hardly anybody was showing up to the hospital with the epidemic.
If I were you... Insofar as I can imagine myself into your shoes... Reasonable access to healthcare....
I would probably take the vaccination when it was offered to me -- yes.
for whatever that is worth.
poster:alexandra_k
thread:1113573
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20210120/msgs/1113705.html