Posted by Lou Pilder on June 29, 2016, at 16:29:32
In reply to Re: Please. » SLS, posted by Tabitha on June 29, 2016, at 13:10:39
> > It is interesting that no one comes to my defense when the troll attacks me incessantly with such obviously uncivil content.
>
> I can't speak for others but for me it's like, if a 2-year-old throws a tantrum and calls my friend a poopy-head, it doesn't occur to me that it's necessary to speak up and state that my friend is not a poopy-head since the accusation is absurd. But for the record, I declare that SLS is not a poopy-head, an anti-Semite, is not leading thousands of people to death by psychiatric medication, is not in need of salvation by the Rider, or anything else any un-civil posting may imply.
>
> > Perhaps you can tell me why you feel that the troll is not a troll.
>
> Looking at the definition you posted, it only partially fits:
>
> > a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,
>
> Yes, definitely
>
> > by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community
>
> Yes, definitely
>
> > with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion,
>
> Unclear. Only the poster knows what his intent is. It's my subjective opinion that the disruption is considered by the poster to be acceptable collateral damage for his mission of crusading for what he sees as truth and justice. In short I see True Believer mode operating here. I recognize that I could be mistaken. I think an actual, deliberate troll would have a little more variety to his methods. We see the same three notes being hit over and over. A deliberate troll (in my opinion) would get bored and shake things up a little.
>
> > [3] often for their own amusement."
>
> Unclear. I see no indication that the poster feels amused by the results. In contrast he seems to get more and more upset and ramp up the accusations of anti-Semitism and notifications to "Mr Hsiung" in response to pushback. Again, I recognize that I could be mistaken.
>
> > "Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore it,[citation needed] because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls"."
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
>
> I don't really notice that anything anyone does here affects the postings. Ignoring, engaging, arguing, the posts continue along in the same manner. I do notice them responding (negatively) to being attacked, and that's about it. Thus, if the pattern of a troll is to quiet down when ignored, I don't notice that pattern here.
>
> > In the absence of a moderator, and in consideration of the unfettered uncivil behaviors of the troll, especially when the content of its posts casts dispersions upon my character, behaviors, motivations, and affiliations, I don't have any regrets in calling the troll a troll - at least for now. Am I civil? I imagine not. My incivilities are few, I should think. Perhaps I slipped off track? For right now, I really don't care.
> >
> > The behavior of the troll grows more and more uncivil and offensive. It is apparently refractory to teachability despite years of people trying to guide it. To ignore the troll seems to me to be the best solution anyone has come up with yet.
>
> OK, I think I understand where you're coming from a bit more. I'm willing to agree to disagree about how best to respond to the situation. I'm trying to remain civil in direct interactions with the poster, although I am almost certainly being un-civil in discussions of them with other posters, including this discussion.
>
> > I'm mentally ill, you know. There should be more tolerance of my incivilities, don't you think? I should not expect others to guide, reprimand, shame, or judge me for that reason, regardless of how much of a troll I become.
>
> Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I am sensing that you don't like to see a lower-functioning individual appear to get treated more gently than higher-funcitoning individuals, because that amounts to rewarding bad behavior. I am sorry that it works out that way. Speaking personally again, I have tried to engage and encourage the poster to modify their posting style and have had complete failure. But I thought there might be hope of improving the situation somewhat by reducing the collateral damage of un-civil pushback. In short, I see one poster as a lost cause-- it's not that I fail to notice the incivility of their posts.
>
> > I would love for Dr. Bob to return to throw me out for a few weeks, as long as the enforcement of civility returns and he throws the troll out as well. To sanction the troll's behavior with posting blocks would greatly mitigate the deterioration of the forum.
>
> I would like the return of Dr Bob. I don't wish to see you blocked. I don't agree with Dr Bob's strategy regarding the poster. His last comments about the situation were to the effect that we should have lower standards for the most needy. That led directly to one of my favortite long-term babblers leaving the forum. I don't like that at all.
>
> > I think you would be surprised by how much self-control the troll has when it is confronted with posting blocks.
>
> I haven't been here continuously, but I don't see a lot of self-control. He managed to get blocked for a year. Perhaps multiple years, I can't remember. The only rule he seems to be trying to uphold is the rule against sharing his Rider vision in its entirety. I'm not sure why he holds back on that one, while posting so freely with the anti-psychiatry and accusations of anti-Semitism.
>
> > Be not deceived.
>
> Ha.
>
> On a personal note, I think the labelling "troll" grates on me so much because it amounts to claiming to know a person's motivations better than they know themselves. When people ask the poster his motivation, he responds that it is about avoiding blood on his hands due to not warning people off deadly medication, fighting anti-Semitism, and leading people to the peace of his Rider-inspired vision. To say no, you're really just a troll, implies either
> (1) you're accusing him of lying about his motivations. which, OK, fine, it's un-civil according to the rules, but you could be correct, or
> (2) you're implying he has some hidden motivation unknown to himself, that you can discern despite his protests
>
> It's #2 that's a real pet peeve of mine. It's the gaslighting bullsh*t that I see operating so freely in therapy, recovery, and new age cultures. Everyone supposedly has some hidden story that only other people can identify, and refusing to adopt their story is seen as more evidence the story is true. It's maddening, and emotionally abusive. It's also sloppy thinking. How can you know the story behind someone else's behavior better than they do? How can you even know the story behind your own behavior? It's all subjective and non-falsifiable. Being the one who knows "the true story" operates not so much as truth-seeking but a way to dominate others. So I think.
>
Tabitha,
You wrote,[...It's #2 that is a real pet peeve of mine. It's the gaslighting bull...].
I appreciate that you have an understanding of this and have posted it here. It is part of The Great Deception that I am prohibited by Mr. Hsiung to post here.
People may not understand {gaslighting} and maybe you could offer some more information here to those that do not understand it. I think that you are referring to the movie that fostered the name that produced the psychological tactic?
Lou
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:1089889
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20160609/msgs/1090006.html