Posted by SLS on October 26, 2012, at 5:39:39
In reply to Re: I give up, posted by gilmourr on October 26, 2012, at 0:55:14
> > > > Hi Kat.
> > > >
> > > > Since you are already there, I would consider increasing the dosage of Nardil to 60 mg/day and wait for the ataxia to show up. If ataxia does emerge, you can always abort the experiment immediately. I must stress that most people who respond well to Nardil need a minimum of 60 mg/day to do so. 60 is the magic number for some reason.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > Not necessarily true, there have been quite a few people at SAS.com including myself where 45 mg has done wonders even full remission for some.
> >
> > Yes. I have read your posts.
> >
> > > 60 mg can actually undo the work.
> >
> > How so? What do you experience when the work is undone?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
> >
>
> I experience severe mood swings that remind me exactly of major depression (they lasted for 4 hours, and didn't get better) over 3 weeks.
>
> Lessening of the effect of anxiety relief, more anxiety to sounds (kind of like a very heightened reflex), MAJOR COLD INTOLERANCE (still waiting for it to go away), urinary retention where I almost needed a cathedar.
>
> At 45 mg after 70-75 days I only had constipation and a 70% relief of anxiety and depression.
>
> Few days after taking 60 mg it started messing it all up and continued to get worse.
>
> Maybe there is a balanced SERT/NE ratio at 45 mg and at 60 mg it is way more NE based? Would explain the coldness, urinary retention, reflexes etc. Iunno, it was bad though.
With Nardil, I experienced an antidepressant effect when I either increased or decreased the dosage. The improvement was, however, extremely short-lived. It would last from a few hours to a few days. I found myself adjusting the dosage of Nardil daily in order to stay in the "zone" of response. Did you know that one can feel better transiently when the dosages of various drugs are decreased? These include, but are not limited to, TCA, MAOI, Depakote, and Lamictal. Those are just the ones that affected me that way. In fact, severe mania can result from drug discontinuation. I experienced my worst mania as the result of Nardil discontinuation.To me, it sounds like you might not have allowed your CNS to reach an equilibrium at the higher dosage of Nardil. For having followed a pattern of continually adjusting the dosage of Nardil up and down, you have become sensitized to many of its side effects. Urinary retention is an example of a side effect that can worsen by jumping up and down in dosage. You are not allowing time for the drug to produce its therapeutic antidepressant effect and only make side effects worse.
If you can't maintain an acceptable antidepressant response to 45 mg/day of Nardil taken daily for 4 - 6 weeks, I would suggest that you remain at that dosage steadily for 1 - 2 weeks before making any changes. You could then increase the dosage by 7.5 mg/day every 1 - 2 weeks as tolerated until you find an effective dosage in the range of 60 - 90 mg/day.
How much time and effort you invest in using Nardil to treat your illness might depend upon how many drugs you have left to try. If there a bunch of treatments yet untried, then perhaps it makes sense to change drugs now. If your alternatives are now limited because of previous treatment failures, it makes sense to give Nardil more time, particularly since you are at least partially responsive to it.
When one hits an effective dosage of Nardil, they often feel weird for a few days to a week. It is not a return of depression, but rather a brain fog that can flatten affect and produce cognitive difficulties. It just doesn't feel "right". However, this can be a good sign that biological events are occurring that are producing a more complete antidepressant response.
- ScottSome see things as they are and ask why.
I dream of things that never were and ask why not.- George Bernard Shaw
poster:SLS
thread:1029778
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121018/msgs/1029844.html