Posted by jedi on July 7, 2011, at 2:20:42
In reply to Questions on phenelzine/Nardil (@jedi and others), posted by europerep on July 3, 2011, at 11:43:52
Sorry I missed your post ER. A lot of times I just scan through. I sure hope the phenelzine works for you. It can often work where all else has failed. 45+ different combinations of failed trials, in my case. Phenelzine can work with depressions other than atypical. But it is the "BOMB" for atypical depression and social anxiety. If you have a large anxiety component to your depression, I think phenelzine can work better than tranylcypromine. I've used them both. Had a rare auto-hypertensive episode on Parnate; that ended that one.
In my experience and from what I've read; the insomnia will probably always have to be treated. Currently I use 50mg of Benadryl and .5mg of clonazepam. The clonazepam also helps with the social anxiety, but I'm tapering it to zero because of memory issues. Dosage timing has never seemed to make much difference with me on Nardil. I've tried them all, including taking the whole daily dose at bedtime. No difference.
Most of the other side effects lessen or go away with time. The weight issue will always have to be watched. I crave the sweet carbohydrates; and even more so on Nardil. I used to be able to eat 3 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, right before bedtime, and not even feel the least bit full. I use a low carb diet now with lots of protein and non-starchy vegetables. That and strenuous exercise control the weight for me. When my first major depression hit, I just could not exercise. I remember hitting the wall one day and I just quit. If I would have got started again, once the Nardil kicked in, I don't think I would have gained so much.
Please feel free to ask any questions or Babble-Mail me. I've been on this med for most of 12 years now. I've researched it a lot, but most of the information I pass on, I qualify as being from my own experience. As we are all so different in our reactions to these meds.
Good Luck and Be Well,
Jedi
(May the Force be with You)> Hello there..
>
> To make it short, I have decided to try out phenelzine (Nardil) for treatment-resistant depression. The reason for that is, on the one hand, that I want to have failed on both tranylcypromine and phenelzine before I ever consider ECT, and on the other hand, that I am wondering whether my depression isn't "atypical" after all. A couple of days ago I read a paper by Michael Thase and others that stated how positive mood reactivity may actually not be such a decisive factor in recognizing atypical depression as it was once thought, i.e. atypical depression can also be without positive mood reactivity. (The paper can be found here: http://www.cmellc.com/landing/pdf/A11001011.pdf ) In terms of other symptoms/criteria, I am pretty sure it's atypical:
> - early age of onset: check
> - eating (too) much: check (I am not overweight, but I eat much more than others)
> - sleeping too much: double check
> - rejection sensitivity: check
>
> So, if this is atypical, I would definitely want to try phenelzine before doing anything else. I have taken tranylcypromine before, so I know all the diet stuff and all that, and I just have a couple of questions relating specifically to phenelzine:
>
> 1) Are there any "rules" on when to take a dose? (As with tranylcypromine not after 1PM or so, in order to avoid insomnia)
>
> 2) Do those of you who take it successfully also take vitamin B6 supplements? There is this issue of phenelzine maybe causing vit B6 deficiency.
>
> 3) Concerning meals and eating, I actually have a question for the jedi(-master) here ;-)
> You mentioned you have implemented a special diet that allows you to counter the weight gain side effects. What is that you eat a lot of, and what do you eat rarely or not at all? Do you know how many calories you have per day?
> I'm asking because you mentioned how you wished you had started that diet right when starting nardil, so in the unlikely case that it will work for me, I would really like to "pre-emptively" implement a good diet so as to not gain too much weight from it.
>
> 4) Anything else I should know about phenelzine that isn't covered by the general "MAOI rules"?
>
> As always, thanks a lot in advance!
> Bye..
>
> ER
Jedi
Treatment resistant, atypical, double depression with social anxiety.
Nardil + clonazepam
poster:jedi
thread:990065
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20110630/msgs/990395.html