Posted by sukarno on November 16, 2010, at 15:26:12
In reply to Re: tianeptine » sukarno, posted by g_g_g_unit on November 15, 2010, at 23:07:49
> Thanks for your response sukarno. A couple of questions, if you don't mind -
>
> a) What does the anti-depressant effect actually feel when it manifests? So far, after 4 days on the drug, I don't feel particularly depressed, but my hopeless mood has been replaced by a kind of serene apathy, similar to that induced by SSRIs (as conundrum has stated). There have been moments where I get a little, mildly euphoric buzz and feel really connected to people/my surroundings, which is great, but I take it that's not what I should be looking for . .?--
Hi! I'm glad you are getting some relief now. Unfortunately, in my experience, I only felt that adrenaline-like buzz or motivation in the beginning. In the long-term it is more like an anxiolytic and the antidepressant effect tended to poop out. I raised the dose and that helped my mood again for a long time but eventually I was up to 6 tablets/day.
I guess it causes some feeling of serene apathy. Things don't bother me as much as before. I felt though that Prozac was a lot worse and also affected my libido adversely whereas Stablon only slightly affects it (maybe a 10 or 15% reduction in libido in the long run vs Prozac's 90%+ reduction).
>
> Unfortunately, it's that stimulating effect which is most beneficial for my motivation and concentration. I see some people taking 4-6 tabs and wonder if I may be underdosing (though obviously it's too early to tell), or if they're just chasing a certain effect?
>---
I wonder if they are taking that much because they need that much to obtain an antidepressant effect or if they were on a lower dose and it worked, but then it pooped out so they had to keep raising it.
I found that I could get a good buzz on it in the long term (after being on it for a year). I could take 2 at once in the morning and feel a mild to moderate euphoria. I tried 3 once and that was more intense but it was so much different than any other drug. There was a mixed anxiolytic/stimulant effect. I felt laid back and so comfortable and the music sounded awesome..body felt numbish.. but I also felt stimulated. My pulse though was normal (70bpm) and that effect was short-lived.. perhaps 90 minutes tops. After that I felt like sleeping.
Some people abuse it for the stimulant effect and others abuse it for the anxiolytic effect. I think there's just a mixture of both at the same time. Probably it is calming down the glutamate receptors, lowering cortisol production and also increasing dopamine a bit at higher doses.
> and b) do you find that the anxiolytic effects build over time? My hypervigilance has completely died down, and like I say I feel really calm and serene, but unfortunately there has been no positive effect on my worrying and OCD-related intrusive thoughts. I'm not sure if you're prone to GAD or anxiety outside of your panic disorder, but do the benefits in that respect take time, as with SSRIs?
>
> thanks :)---
I found that the anxiolytic effects became more pronounced with time. It seems to be a better anxiolytic after years of taking it. If your depression is caused by anxiety though, I would think Stablon would help it. If depression is the primary problem I fear that you will have to increase the dose in the long run, but everyone is different.
There is a report in the literature that Stablon can exacerbate OCD. That's only one case report though, so I'm not sure if it is scientific. I think we need many more reports before we can say there is causation.
I think Stablon (with long-term use) gave me obsessive thoughts about sex and gambling. hehheh.. I suspect this is due to its effects on dopamine. I could control these thoughts, but casinos don't exist in Indonesia and gambling is illegal. It was also strange having a slightly lower libido, yet thinking more about sex.
The available evidence says that patients who abuse Stablon (or its cousin amineptine, which has a different mode of action) didn't do so until they were on it for at least a year. My psychiatrist said that only 10% end up psychologically dependent on it, so that's not so bad. Thinking positively, 90% don't find it to be habit-forming. I don't know where he got the 10% figure.. it could be arbitrary.
When Survector was pulled from the market there were 500 documented/reported cases of abuse. With Stablon there have only been 141. I'm sure the number for both drugs is higher as a lot of people don't report abuse or the need to keep escalating the dose.
The good news is that Stablon doesn't cause weight gain or compulsive eating or at least not that I know of. It also doesn't lower libido enough to cause people to quit taking it and is relatively easier to taper off relative to SSRIs.
The early reports about increasing the range of emotions was probably based on the activating effects obtained in the short term or on the assumption that Stablon is an SSRE, so because it must "act in the opposite way as SSRIs" it should not cause emotional blunting.
I think it does cause some emotional blunting in the long term and is relaxing, but definitely nowhere near as much as Prozac did to me.
Do you find that it is causing you emotional blunting just like that caused by SSRIs? Is it negatively affecting libido?
I remember Prozac zapping my libido by 95% in the first two weeks on it and that was just a low dose.
Good luck and keep us updated. I hope it works for you.
It's really too bad that amineptine isn't around (or you have to pay outrageous prices from a guy selling it online.. made in a private laboratory). That was supposed to be one of, if not the best for treatment-resistant depression and put libido through the roof.
:-)
Regards,
Paulalprazolam 1mg QID, tianeptine 6.25mg QID,
quit caffeine
GNC Ultra Mega Gold vitamin supplement, BIDDx: panic disorder, major depression, probable PTSD
poster:sukarno
thread:967506
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20101107/msgs/970470.html