Posted by bleauberry on March 28, 2010, at 7:52:54
In reply to Re: When is it time to give up on all the meds? » bleauberry, posted by greywolf on March 28, 2010, at 7:01:14
It all sounds interesting. And unfortunately, very saddening to see a fellow human suffer as you do.
I would be curious to know a couple things:
1. How exactly were you tested for infections?
2. Which infections?
3. Lab tests or challenge tests?
4. What was the procedure to test for toxins? DMSA urine challenge test? Random blood test?At the end of your post you said there is no way any of these things could cause the intensity of the symptoms you have. I am here to assure you they certainly can and do. We're talking extremely potent chemical secretions that are extremely disruptive and irritating to the nervous sytem, some of them more potent than manmade chemicals.
In terms of meds, I guess at this point we kind of have to look at things that have not been tried, or taking the things that provided maybe hints of improvement and combining them. Or thinking outside the box. For example someone here a couple months ago found significant relief from longstanding symptoms with Metaformin, a diabetic drug, even though he had no blood sugar/insulin issues at all. That represents a blind trial of a hunch, in the absence of any diagnostic lab reports to suggest it. Those kinds of blind trials by hunch are where treatment resistant successes are found. The norm protocols failed already.
There is a lot of physiological science, the body, and chemistry that we just don't know. What we do know is a fraction of what we don't know. What we assume to be fact is actually theory. What we assume to be fact and is truly fact is only 1/10th of the whole picture, the rest we haven't even scratched the surface on yet.
So in cases like yours and most of us here, I personally believe it is warranted and necessary to do trials of out-of-the-box things.
Of course, the opposition to that would say "there is no proof Doxycycline, Diflucan, DMSA, or Metaformin (just a few examples) have any purpose in psychiatry". Does lack of research equal lack of clinical efficacy? No. It's been proved all over the world including here, and in almost every case was by accident or by blind trial.
So to one doctor who tells me I don't have yeast, that issue is overblown on the web, there is no science and no test for it, I say, "What is the harm or risk in giving me a month of Diflucan to see what happens"? The answer is, there is hardly any risk, only possible benefits and diagnostic clues. They of course are reluctant to do that because they would have to lie to insurance company or to a lawyer if there was a lawsuit explaining why they gave Diflucan to someone haphazardly without a yeast diagnosis (no, there isn't a diaper rash or vaginal discharge or white tongue). They are reluctant or hesitant because it doesn't fit the model they were taught in school. None of those things in any way diminish the real potential clinical efficacy of whatever that out-of-the-box blind trial is.
Savella, Parnate, Savella+Risperdal, Savella+Zyprexa, Amisulpride....these are the only things I have seen to be helpful in cases where it seemed to me there was something else going on.
I finally wanted to comment on the view that such things as infections or toxins as being alternative causes of psych symptoms. They are not. They are primary leading causes. They are only viewed as alternative by habits of mankind and assumed protocols. Which in 100 years will likely be shown to be archaic and primitive, entwined in arrogance and ignorance.
What, yeast can only live in the gut, or a rash, or a vagina? How about the brain? Any particular reason it can't thrive there? That question has silenced every doctor I've asked it.
> Thanks, bleuberry.
>
> We have gone the toxins/fungus route a couple times over the last 20 years. No such luck.
>
> Because of the concern regarding the varieyt/number of meds I'm on at any given time, I regularly have full blood testing done. Right now it's to make sure there isnt' an artificial sugar elevation, and to keep watch on thyroid and liver functions. But we've looked for infections, toxins, etc., and have found nothing.
>
> Considering that I present classic symptoms of a strong variety in the BP area and OCD, alternative causes are unlikely in any event. I'm out of the norm when it comes to self-injury, but that is an anxiety reaction to the terrible blasphemous thoughts and thoughts of death to family and friends that occur over a 100 times each day, causing time-consuming an anxiety-creating ritual response behaviors.
>
> Toxins and the like will not explain such circumstances.
>
> But I'm glad they found an alternative explanation for you that has made your life better.
>
> Greywolf.
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> > Opinion...
> >
> > There's something else going on. Staying within the psychiatric toolbox at this point does not make logical sense. There are enough glaring clues to show there is more going on here than a neurotransmitter deficiency or receptor dysfunction or anything like that. We're talking inflammation (where from?0, infection (yeast or lyme or other), and a few other possibilities.
> >
> > From my own experience, I have had a couple things that created the worst depression, or OCD, or paranoia, or anxiety, that no drug could touch. They looked for all the world like classic textbook psychiatric conditions. But they weren't. One was the toxins of candida overwhelming me. The other was the toxins of lyme overwhelming me. The other was the death toxins of killing them. It feels and looks exactly like all the textbook disorders we try to treat, but it isn't them. And thus, no amount of the wrong drug (psychiatric) or electricity (ECT) or any other brain manipulation will do a thing against the presence of those toxins.
> >
> > Just a thought. I speak from personal experience on this and for hundreds of others with the same.
> >
> > No way to prove it, and could be wrong, but my strong hunch is, there is something else going on that you do not suspect.
> >
> > I wish I had some psych suggestions for you. In the midst of the infections that were creating a scenario that looked exactly like the stuff psychiatrists treat, the only three meds I found helpful rather than hurtful were:
> > Savella (Milnacipran)
> > Parnate
> > Amisulpride
>
>
poster:bleauberry
thread:940928
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20100328/msgs/941174.html