Posted by bleauberry on October 12, 2009, at 18:13:16
In reply to Herx Reaction?, posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2009, at 12:25:23
> Since I did have chronic lymes disease just googled herx reaction and I never had that with over two years of three different antibiotics. Does this mean I never needed the antibiotics my own body was doing it's own healing? Phillipa
Don't know. There are too many unanswered questions, such as:
1. What was the basis of the clinical diagnosis? Example, lab tests positive? Tick bite? Maybe it never was Lyme?
2. What was the elapsed time from the tick bite until the beginning of treatment? If it wasn't long, the infection was probably in its infancy stage, perhaps not enough to induce a heavy Herx?
3. Were you diagnosed for the co-infection Babesia? (It is a parasite in ticks that causes the same problems as Borellia...which is just about anything and everything mimicing many diseases of other names...and is not impacted by antibiotics since it is not a bacteria. It is treated with antimalarial drugs or the herb Artemisin (Wormwood).
4. Borellia takes on 3 forms...1)the spirochete form; 2)the cyst form; 3)and the intracellular cellwall-less form. Most antibiotics only get the spirochetes. Within 90 minutes of them sensing a hostile environment (common antibiotics) they can revert to the cyst form, which is penetrated by only a few antibiotics not commonly prescribed. They later come out of hiding in the cyst when danger has passed, being able to hibernate for months and years, and then revert back to spirochetes.
5. That was a long time ago. You were probably feeling ill? Maybe either you don't remember accurately what happened, or you were already ill enough that the Herx didn't stand out?
I wonder what kind of a Herx you would have now, if any? That would be an interesting test.
Babesia Herx test: Artemisin capsules, 1 capsule 3 times a day, Herx in about 2 weeks if infected. Otherwise no side effects.
Borellia Herx test: Coptis or Adrographis or Japanese Knotweed. 2 to 3 capsules 3 times per day, Herx in 2 to 7 days. Japanese Knotwood is a major source of the popular health supplement Resvertrol. So if not infected, it should actually feel like a benefit.
The above three are wide spectrum and also cover the other co-infections such as Bartonella and three others.
But only Artemisin will touch Babesia.
I do not believe you were ever treated for Babesia, unless you recall taking an antimalarial drug.
And one cannot help but wonder about yeast. When it is overgrown after longterm antibiotic use, it is well entrenched in the body and pretty much causes the same symptoms as Lyme. In Germany a pilot study found amazing success in treating chronic Lyme that was resistant to antibiotics with the antifungal Diflucan. Theories are that the patients actually had yeast instead of Lyme...the antibiotics had already killed the Lyme but then yeast took over; and another theory is the Borellia has a primitive P450 enzyme system and Diflucan just happens to suppress that, thus disabling them.
A safe wide spectrum Herx challenge can be done with Allicin capsules...the active odor ingredient of garlic. Powerful wide spectrum antimicrobial when taken in the concentrated allicin capsule form. Or if you can stomach it, 8 raw cloves per day.
Much more research is needed in Lyme, Phillipa. New mutations and new discoveries almost daily. It is in constant evolution. There is a great deal not known, as evidenced by dozens of LLMDs who all seem to have their own personal favorite successful protocols that are different from the next guy.
I remember my LLMD telling me that some of his patients never got a Herx and he didn't know why. Most of them eventually got better with ABX and no longer had symptoms of fatigue, anxiety, pains, or depression. Why they never Herxed, no idea.
With such a deceptive disease mimicing so many others, and so many questions unanswered, it is gets even worse when for every 1 person diagnosed it is estimated there are 9 others not diagnosed.
poster:bleauberry
thread:920617
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20091012/msgs/920668.html