Posted by Brainbeard on September 8, 2009, at 11:13:40
In reply to Increasing SSRI/SNRI above the 'regular' doses., posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on September 7, 2009, at 23:35:36
If you want to decrease or eliminate REM-sleep - that's what most typical antidepressants do, in regular doses. Bupropion aka Wellbutrin actually increases REM-sleep though, as do most stimulants, caffeine included.
The MAOIs are real REM-killers: they almost completely abolish REM-sleep!
The TCA's and the SSRIs suppress it by as much as 75-85% in the short term (days) and 40-50% in the long term (weeks/months).
I take this from an online article about REM-sleep and memory consolidation, link: http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldArchive/bbs.vertes.html, see under: '3. REM SLEEP AND ANTIDEPRESSANT DRUGS'. Excellent information, references included.
I wouldn't know if SSRIs would suppress REM-sleep more on higher doses.
There is one thing you should be aware of, though. DREAMING DOES NOT EXCLUSIVELY OCCUR DURING REM-SLEEP. In fact, it has been proposed that because (S)SRIs suppress normal REM-sleep dreaming, they force the brain to produce dreaming using other brain circuits - namely the frontal lobe. Frontal lobe dreams are characterized by their feverish, loopy character and can be very lengthy, sometimes epic. Although dreams are naturally bizarre, these non-REM dreams can be bizarre in a more artificial way. Presumably, these dreams are not so much being created by the emotional parts of the brain but by the intellectual part.
This may be partly hypothetical, but, surprisingly, it is a FACT that (S)SRI's, although they suppress REM-sleep, tend to INTENSIFY dreaming! See this abstract of a book called 'Serotonin and Sleep: Molecular, Functional and Clinical Aspects': http://www.springerlink.com/content/t0j6l83036527689/. These intense dreams are non-REM dreams.
So, when you're experiencing intense dreaming, this MAY not be related to REM-sleep at all, in which case antidepressant suppression of REM-sleep may only make things worse.
It all depends on wether your dreams are REM or non-REM.
poster:Brainbeard
thread:916056
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090902/msgs/916083.html