Posted by yxibow on September 7, 2009, at 4:46:10
In reply to yxibow is misinformed about psychiatry!, posted by Jeroen on September 7, 2009, at 2:03:13
> yxibow is misinformed about psychiatry!
Now Jeroen, you have been through a lot, but this is an ad hominem comment which I have always been careful to try not to direct to you, and is a generalization.
> you can get TD from day 3, lolThere's nothing amusing or funny about Tardive Dyskinesia, or at least you have shown us pictures of yourself that appear to be TD and you haven't been amused then (although I keep telling that you should have a complete exam by a neurologist trained in movement disorders to determine exactly what was or is going on, because there are a lot of explanations including, although I don't know if you have schizophrenia, that the movements of those with such related disorders can 'mimic' TD at times).
And there have never been any cases reported that I'm possibly aware of in psychiatry that you can get TARDIVE (that's late, years) dyskinesia after a three day set of pills. They're not antibiotics, you're not getting anaphylaxis. (See ID, below)
That being said, what is harder to prove, as except in severe cases only the patient knows, is Tardive Dystonia, I have gotten in a short period of time. Or at least I think. I took Zyprexa for a month, as it was raised, I had stiffness, amantadine was tried. It was discontinued.
I had some withdrawal dyskinesia (that's normal in abrupt disruption), but gripping pain began to settle in bilaterally and in both my arms and legs -- my biceps/triceps were locked, my legs were like lead and I couldn't swim.
When I finally went back on Seroquel (several trials... it was a bad time), it 'melted' away what I perceived to be TDy. This is consistent that Seroquel, Clozaril, and ironically Zyprexa are controversial but possible treatments for TDy. So is Artane and Cogentin. So is L-Dopa and other dopamine agonists. And so are some benzodiazepines. And in some severe distortions, botox and other such things, I believe.
Do I know if and when I can exist with a smaller amount of Seroquel that what I believe to be TDy will come back, I don't know.Tardive Dystonia resolves in fewer cases than Tardive Dyskinesia but has treatments. Tardive Dyskinesia to this day resolves in at -least- 30% of the time, stays about the same in the other third, and becomes worst in the remaining.
To this day there are no known mainline treatments for TD, however there have been small trials with tetrabenazine (Nitoman/Xenaxine) that have shown some promise.
Reserpine, the only other dopamine depleter may or may not work in similar ways, but is harsher and a much older agent and has more problems. Tetrabenazine itself can cause long term to permanent pseudoparkinsonism.
Either agent can also cause TD or TDy so it is wise to use them judiciously (and off label from its orphan use for Huntington's) in TD.
> i hope you know now
I won't comment other than that's pretty savage -- all of us who have taken or take APs have to live with the fact that while the likelihood of TD within an unknown amount of years is small with the new atypicals (Risperdal has been one that has shown more), the average is still 5% per year for an unknown amount of cumulative effects.
The potential for TD is cumulative of all APs, but how cumulative and how it affects different people is quite disparate. I happen to be sensitive to APs and have developed a -non tardive- tic syndrome both orofacially and in my right index finger (whether doctor's opinions on that one matter or not, I took Risperdal and Prozac for a short time and the tic is still there, but only when I'm taking an AP and only when I'm more upset.)
In fact TD, TDy, as well as other motor control conditions, pseudo (or not) parkinsonism are accentuated by stress and psychological issuesm as are a lot of things in life.
Now as for your comment about 3 days, dropping a load of APs, not 3 days, but maybe after 2 weeks, can cause withdrawal dyskinesia (WD), which is not a permanent, but not a pleasant condition, in which various tics and dyskinetic movements may occur for some days to weeks after. They resolve.
Then there is ID, or Initial Dyskinesia. That's the only one that would possibly match your 3 day comment. Oculogyric crisis is one example, usually with fairly potent agents, but could happen to anyone, where out of control eye movement occurs. An emergency use of Benadryl and/or other agents is typically the scenario in this circumstance.
Also, tardive conditions may affect people with affective (Schizoaffective, Bipolar, mood [anxiety, etc] disorders) more than those with strict schizophrenia.Why isn't entirely understood but differences in certain brain structures is part of this as well as how the brain in schizophrenia processes dopamine.
So don't take my extreme sensitivity to this particular class of chemicals and what my brain is going through (you know, its not a solid structure, the chemistry changes over time....) as what is seen in most individuals.
But it doesn't make it any more amusing, and I've been through enough medication to know that I'm fairly informed about what -I- have experienced.I've still said that if you seriously believe that you have permanent brain damage, which is completely out of the scope of what psychiatry would have ever seen, from less than a fortnight of Lamictal, then you may believe what you wish.
As I also have had a extremely serious situation which I already explained with Zyprexa, although it also involved dropping a antidepressant, going into a depressive coma and generally unpleasant things I'm not going to post here.
So while I attribute it to the Zyprexa, and I am sensitive to APs and I would never touch it again, that doesn't mean I am going around and telling people who have been stable on Zyprexa and would be climbing the walls without it to stop it.
You have a lot on your mind, and so do I. I have multiple medications, and I am caught currently still taking Seroquel, only for reasons I'm not going to go longer about, I can't exercise as much these days, hence I am not the -slightly- toned and less overweight person I was some years before, but I am rather overweight.
-- tidings.
poster:yxibow
thread:915586
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090902/msgs/915980.html