Posted by 49er on February 21, 2009, at 11:08:43
In reply to Re: 2-1/2 years later have permanent withdrawal sympto » 49er, posted by SLS on February 18, 2009, at 6:37:22
Hi Scott,
<<Not that there is anything wrong with medicating a side effect, but many people use remedial pharmacological measures to ameliorating the intensity of a withdrawal syndrome.>>
Cold turkeying Prozac caused me to have suicidal ideation.
But don't take my word on the negatives. You might want to go to Paxil Progress Boards and read the post by Laurie Yorke, an RN who is the board administrator, on using Prozac to alleviate withdrawal symptoms from Paxil.
"I'll take them on one at a time. Paxil/ssri withdrawal happens to approximately 70% of users...this is probably lower than the actual number since so many don't know what they are experiencing and don't report it.
Switching, in our years of experience here hasn't proven out to work. Paxil is just unique enough that most experience withdrawal regardless of what other ssri they switch to. Prozac had caused anxiety in alot who have tried this and they ultimately went back to Paxil and weaned slowly off from there. The major problem with switching is you have no idea what are withdrawal symptoms and what are start up symptoms of the new drug.
Taking two ssri's together is potentially dangerous. Serotonin Syndrome is warned against when taking two serotonin enhancing drugs at the same time.
As for the Prozac...it has the same sexual side effects that Paxil does, so I'm not sure what information your doc is basing his recommendations on."
By the way, I have permission to repost anything she says so I am not violating confidentially rules.
She was responding to someone whose doctor suggested switching from Paxil to Prozac for side effects. But what she said is applicable to our thread.
She has become a staunch advocate after her son, Ryan, became psychotic on an MD tapering schedule for Paxil. He is fine now that he is off the med although I think he has lingering physical problems
<<My guess is that magnesium might help as well. If it can make life more tolerable and the person more functional, why not opt for remediation?>>
The difference is that many people are deficient in magnesium. But even there, you have to be careful as taking it can cause deficiency in other areas.
Also, many people are so hypersensitive in withdrawal, that even supplements aren't a good idea.
<< Using your taper schedule would actually take longer and possibly allow for more withdrawal symptoms than crossing over to Prozac and allowing its week-long half-life serve as a gradual taper.>>
Scott, with all due respect, I couldn't disagree more and feel like what you are advocating would make the situation alot worse.
This isn't a case of simply lowering the level of a medicine in the body. Psych meds make numerous changes throughout the body and you need to give the brain time to adapt to these changes.
Quickly tapering a med is like putting the car in reverse at 60 miles per hour. Adding prozac is the equivalent of putting gasoline on the fire since you can have start up side effects and there is no guarantee that you won't have a problem free withdrawal.
Also, what about situations like mine where Prozac obviously can't substitute for Doxepin as a sleep med? Anyway, if most people's (not all) goals are to be med free when they taper, why would they want to substitute another med and take the risk of side effects that they aretrying to get away from? That makes no sense
<<Using an anticonvulsant might be the way to go if kindling is indeed involved in the precipitation and persistence of the withdrawal syndrome. There is usually no withdrawal syndrome at all from coming off of an anticonvulsant if it is tapered, which can sometimes be accomplished within 2 weeks.>>
Scott, again, with all due respect, I feel that statement is very wrong and could cause people numerous problems for a long time. Even psychiatrists who are pro meds would never make a statement like that.
Anyway, you might want to read these comments by people on the Furious Seasons Blog regarding Lamictal withdrawal. I think they would greatly disagree with you.
<< Not so. You don't have to "withdraw" from these other drugs, just discontinue them appropriately so as to prevent withdrawal.>>
Scott, if you want to avoid having problems for life, you need to taper psychotropic medications. You might be one of the lucky few who avoids problems but you won't know until it is too late.
I respect your right to feel differently but I am very concerned that people reading this thread will do something they will regret down the road.
<<Can you provide an example? You might have some worth noting.>>
Laurie Yorke's example.
<<I think it is matter of using the tools responsibly and with understanding.>>
No argument there but most psychiatrists do not fully inform their patients.
<<But generally, adding a drug to deal with the problems caused by another drug is playing with fire.>>
><<Can you provide an example?>>Hypothetical situation. Let's say I was given Seroquel to remedy the rebound insomnia caused by tapering off of Doxepin. My hearing loss caused by Remeron, which I was previously on would be mild compared to what even a low dose of Seroquel would cause.
What you are suggesting would be the equivalent of giving someone Cocaine to deal with heroin withdrawal. Of course, that is absurd but in a way, that is what you are unintentionally suggesting.
<< *Ease* back into homeostasis so as not to overshoot and produce more persistent problems - like the post-discontinuation persistent withdrawal effects that some people are reporting with SRIs and Remeron.>>Yeah, but I feel your suggestion would lead to more post-discontinuation problems. You might be rid of the ones with one SSRI but you would be essentially trading problems.
>
<<I have learned to taper using a flexible dosing method that does not confine one to one dose per day of a fixed amount. It is much quicker and much more tolerable. I can get off of 300mg of Effexor within 2 weeks with no withdrawal symptoms except for those that I purposely allow to occur. There is more than one method of taper, and there is more than one kind of drug remediation strategy.>>I don't doubt you but again, even pro med psychiatrists would agree that Effexor is the worst drug to taper off of and needs to be done carefully do to is very short half live.
Again, you may be one of the lucky few who can get away with this but the problem is that most people can't and they will find out when it is too late which may destroy their lives for years.
49er
poster:49er
thread:880481
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090213/msgs/881486.html