Posted by Jakeo29 on January 1, 2009, at 12:14:03
-Sorry everyone, this post is really long, however, I have to give the reasoning behind my question to help you guys understand my question, as you read it, this may sound very familiar to many of you too with similar disabilities.
-Confusing subject but I have a research question for our leading resident psychobabble neuroscientists. :) With my disability, I deal with low self-confidence, motivational (walk-the-walk), and executive function difficulties (fluid performance) as a result. D1, D2 Agonists like Adderall, stimulates most of brains dopamine/norepinephrine system. Therefore adderall hits the part of the brain that dopamine in that part of the brain controls confidence, performance, and motivation. Some say its an "artificial" sense of confidence and performance. I would have to disagree in some cases, especially for people who have disabilities such as AD/HD, social anxiety, and fluid performance difficulties. If the medications are allowing you to consistently "walk the walk" as you were not able to do before medication augmentation, the medication would aid the neurochemicals responsible to allow you to perform near your potential. Does not mean you will go from D's to straight A's in a particular subject, which is the misconception that some neuro-typicals have that when we take these medications, we have some kind of "advantage" over them. That thinking is just simply that they do not understand these disabilities and the fact that we live in a very competitive society and people don't like when there is a chance that others can get ahead of them especially if they have medical tools to overcome their neurological disabilities.
-What I am trying to say for example is that person "A" the "Neuro-typical" is taking a college course with person "B" the person with a neuropsych (e.g. AD/HD) disability. Both Individuals are highly intelligent and highly interested in the particular academic matter. Thus, Person "A" studies hard, understands the material, organizes well, and performs at his potential. Lets say he gets a B+ for his exams. Any further studying or tutoring for this individual would not result in a grade higher than a B+ because he performed at his maximum level of understanding.
-Hope you guys are not lost yet. This has been an psychological issue I have been faced with for a long time. Lets take a Break...-OK, Now person "B", the one with AD/HD (without medications for his entire life) for example, understands the material well, studies hard, is relatively organized exp. for someone with AD/HD and is prepared. However his sense of confidence is not there and he is not sure if he actually mastered the material despite understanding and studying it as well as person "A". Person "B" also demonstrated high levels of understanding on practice exams and have been noted by the professor and tutors.
-Person "B" then takes the actual exam and is highly distracted and socially uncomfortable in a classroom situation as one would expect for someone with AD/HD. His mind starts to scatter as the timed exam begins and pin-drop quietness takes over the exam room. Sometimes this individual is looking around at others (not cheating, just distracted) more than focusing on his own exam. He does the best he can. If person "B" gets too frustrated during this period, an overwhelming sense of impulsiveness may overcome the student and he may quit, throw the book down the hallway or act out outbursts of frustration in despair (hint, hint)
-He gets the test back and sadly gets a "D" even though earlier he has demonstrated to both tutors and the professor that he clearly understands the subject matter at a "B" level as well as person "A" above. The student feels depressed, frustrated, and impulsive at school and may even lay waste to a garbage can or kick a door while grumbling nasty words at the perceived "more successful" students for example. Although the outbursts are not tolerated well by others, he is not in any danger to himself or others, just extremely disheartened and apathetic.
-The tutors and the professor are clueless and even feel a bit sorry for the struggling student.
Now the student goes to see a neuropsychiatrist for the treatment of AD/HD. He is given Adderall.-When back at school, person "B" notices an immediate difference. Although a bit euphoric, he notices things slow down around him, things distract him less, and feels very confident, unlike before after studying hard for the next exam.
-He takes the exam in the exact same situation as before and even without any significant changes in study habits. The student feels more comfortable socially in the exam situation and since the pressure of time perception is seemingly diminished with the effects of Adderall, he feels much more confident during the exam and "things click" during the test. When the exam is returned, student "B" gets a "B" Not as high as person "A", but without the medication person "B" would probably get another "D" or get frustrated, drop the course, and have inappropriate outbursts of frustration.
-The reason why I believe medications is not an advantage is that if person "A" took the adderall somehow illegally, he would still end up with a B+ or even worse because he would of used the stimulant to pull an all-nighter actually diminishing his performance. I have noticed that stimulants are not as prevalent as people think on campus. I told many good students that I took adderall and even had the bottle in view. No one once ask for any. I think the misuse of stimulants of campus is somewhat confined to people who party a lot, do other drugs, and need to pull good grades. Shreww
-I know this is a very long post, but I needed this long example so you guys can better understand my question, as the above is a very similar situation in my case.
-Here is my question now. When the medication (Adderall) is taken, where in the brain is the D1,D2 receptors that control the increased fluid confidence and performance as described above? Again adderall effects the whole brain, but it seems to hit that special area that none of the other medications that I have taken, has even touched. This includes other Dopamine Agonists such as Ritalin, Strattera, etc. (eventhough the other medication significantly help in their own entity.) I think that when agonizing D2 in the brain, it does not have the same effect to all parts of the brain. For example, I think, D2 agonist in one part of the brain may lead to sleepiness, while D2 agonization in the other area, like above leads to increased confidence and executive function. Ritalin does not seem to hit this either. From my research, I think this area is due to the agonization of D1,D2 from the limbic/temporal to forebrain pathways. I think Ritalin only agonizes D2 in the Stratium and Strattera's actions occurs primarily in the forebrain. Are there any other medications that is not amphetamine based and less addictive that targets these "confidence" pathways? I have tried welbutrin too, but no luck. These "confidence" pathways with my case connect with social phobia/interaction and executive performance issues. -Jake
poster:Jakeo29
thread:871782
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20081223/msgs/871782.html