Posted by Squiggles on October 23, 2007, at 14:41:02
In reply to Re: That Way Lies Madness, posted by linkadge on October 23, 2007, at 12:20:43
> The notion that an individual with a mental illness needs to be on medication or else they will remain sick is not really all that accurate.
Really? Depression and bipolar disorders and schizophrenia all have a majority of age onset.
In this respect they are very much like other genetically-keyed biological developments. One example, is adolescence and all the hormonal changes attending that period. It is usually between 10-14. In the case of schizophrenia, around 18, in bipolar around 28, in depression, can be any time, but usually earlier than the above. Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, later in life, usually above 50.>
> In addition to that, there are many people who will remain sick in spite of the best conventional treatments.That's because we don't know everything yet. Some illnesses are successfully treated because they have found the right drug. That took years of research.
>
> For many people, current medications don't help, so it comes down to taking a medication that does nothing and produces a whole load of side effects, or simply taking nothing at all.Taking nothing at all is worse than taking something that has some effect, though not the best effect.
>
> It baffles me that you seem to have a hard time beliving two things:
>
I don't care if you're baffled. I have witnessed tragedies in my life and i have read extensively on mental illness and the statistics are, that it is baffling that you should let people remain ill and ruin their lives or self-medicate with alcohol or street drugs, or worse kill themselves or others.> a) People cannot improve without the help of modern psychiatric medicinces.
These illnesses may be cyclical but they do not terminate like the flu. They are brain diseases which must be corrected, like meningitis, or enchephalitis, for example.
>
> b) People who improve without medications really have no illness at all.That's because the majority do not improve. Once you have manic-depression, your brain has changed neurologically. It doesn't go back to its pre-sick stage through a miracle or on its own.
You may suffer something else which is misdiagnosed, resulting from stress, and that group will be used by the anti-psychiatry brigade to prove their point. But that group is small and an exception.>
> Clinical depression is a remitting disease. It usually remits within about 8 months to 1 year. That basically means that despite whatever gene a person has, or whatever biochemical abnormality an individual has, the brain is able to adjust and correct its problem over time. You don't give the brain enough credit.Remitting, only when it is exogenously causes, as in grief for example. If it is a brain change, it's a crapshoot to wait and see if and when there will be a self-healing process of the brain.
>
> I think the real reason that people like to discount the power of healthful lifestyles, stress reduction, exercise, and social support, is because it removes the guilt out of their decision to take medications, and sit on their
> behind all day.Yeah, that will be $100 dollars please -- 'your neighbourhood palm reader'.
>
> Even an individual with a genetic disposition to high cholesterol or high blood pressure can make dramatic changes to either of those paramters through lifestyle changes.Dramatic -- you give credit to bean sprouts, but not to a genetic predisposition to some of these problems. Diet and exercise help, but blood pressure and cholesterol are not mental disorders, though they like everything else in the body can effect the brain.
>
> >They have all kinds of theories,
> >non of them coming from a medical education, like
> >"exercise-induced endomorphins"-- well, how many
>
> Actually, there is considerable scientific literature on the antidepressant capacity of exercise.The fact that you don't believe in the medical basis to the antidepressant effects of exercise is a testament to your lack of interest in reading quality research on the topic. Exercise has the capacity to prompt many of the exact same changes as chemical antidepressant treatment. In a number of studies, exercise outperforms antidepressant treatments. In many studies exercise regiments reduce the risk of releapse into depression more thouroghly than chemical antidepressant treatments.Well, go ahead and exercise. In mixed states and mania, some patients exercised themselves to death because they could not stop. That's called psycho-motor agitation. And you visit some mental health hospitals and see the patient who cannot stop moving without drugs. Some cannot stop masturbating, or picking at their skin, or pacing up and down the halls, or talking until they are hoarse. It's not a pretty sight.
Your references may be good clinical articles, and exercise is good for anyone, but years of medical research have been devoted to treating with medication. I would exercising as a cure is not mainstream. But if it helps you, you are lucky.
Squiggles
>
poster:Squiggles
thread:790781
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20071019/msgs/790865.html