Posted by Quintal on August 10, 2007, at 15:40:17
In reply to Re: beta carbolines to reverse benzo cognitive pro, posted by linkadge on August 10, 2007, at 14:59:20
>Yes, but only a small number of them are assesing the potential for such side effects to be long term / permanant. The only side effects are somewhat proven to occur in some patients are short term cognative problems which really don't concern me.
Well they concern me, and their existence is confirmed by these studies. The evidence shows that cognitive problems last as long as treatment continues, and that the risk of depression increases with length of treatment, so this is a concern for anyone taking benzodiazepines long-term.
>The assertion that benzodiazapines cause permanant brain damage is intrinsically a very challenging one to establish.
Linkadge, I said no such thing. There is no evidence as yet that benzodiazepines cause permanent brain damage. Heather Ashton herself confirms this. At worst, there are functional changes at receptors that may cause lingering withdrawal symptoms in a minority of individuals. In my own case the withdrawal symptoms disappeared within the first month, full psychological adjustment to living without benzos took longer of course. The cognitive and memory problems were resolved within a week of quitting.
>I still don't see what you are getting at.
I'm saying that the overwhelming body of evidence demonstrates significant cognitive and memory impairment at typical therapeutic doses of benzodiazepines in the majority of subjects. For some people this is a serious problem, others a nuisance, and a small minority seem to be unaffected. When questioned many benzodiazepine users claim to be unaffected, but objective studies of their performance show otherwise. It should be borne in mind that people under the influence of alcohol (and many other drugs) tend to dangerously overestimate their performance and competence, even to the point of denying any impairment at all. The evidence shows a similar effect with benzodiazepines.
>The notion that long term benzo use leads to permanant cognative decline is a relativly recent one. Only time will help to clarify the incidence / validity of such preliminary claims.
See above.
>Hundreds of studies have established the possability that SSRIs can cause sexual side effects. That doesn't mean everybody gets them.
Again, how is this relevant to a discussion of benzodiazepines? I think I've made considerable effort already to be fair in saying a small minority seem to be unaffected by the amnesic and cognitive blunting effects of small doses of benzodiazepines. However, the overwhelming body of evidence demonstrates significant cognitive and memory impairment at typical therapeutic doses of benzodiazepines in the majority of subjects.
>I agreed with you in the beginning that benzodiazapines *can* cause cognative side effects or else I woudn't have started this thread!!?
Yes, that would be logical. However, I think you've spent the majority of this thread trying to prove the contrary.
>You cannot proove however, that every individual who takes a benzodiazapine looses cognative capacity.
I have said no such thing.
>Infact just the existence of one study suggesting that benzdiazapine use can improve cognative performance makes it impossable to prove a totality.
I am not trying to prove a totality. I *am* saying the overwhelming body of evidence demonstrates significant cognitive and memory impairment at typical therapeutic doses of benzodiazepines in the majority of subjects.
Q
poster:Quintal
thread:774284
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070808/msgs/775321.html