Posted by linkadge on March 10, 2007, at 20:12:22
In reply to Re: the real issue, posted by yxibow on March 10, 2007, at 17:29:06
>SSRIs have been in the lab since the early 1960s >(Prozac has its roots in Benadryl) and Luvox was >released in Switzerland in 1984. We have about >25 years of experience with the proof of concept >of SSRIs and if you trace it to the earliest, we >have over 40 years of proof of concept. With the >introduction of Prozac here we have 20 years of >history of use. That equals to millions of >patients times 20 years, which is millions of >patient-years of proof of side effects and >positive effects and what long term use of SSRIs >do.
Well I'm not so sure. The term poop-out is a recent term. The term poop-out can't be more than 10 years old. So it hasn't been too long that we have admitted that the drug effects can fade.
In addition, the true incidence of sexual side effects from SSRI's has only been revealed in recent years. Data from 15 years ago would have said that 10-15% of people experience some mild sexual side effects.
In addition, the propensity for SSRI's to cause suicidal ideation in some people is a recent discovery to come to the forefront.
So, I would argue that there are clearly a number of issues with the drug that have only started to be revealed recently.
Other issues, such as the possable propensity for SSRI's to cause cardiac valve problems, would likely take even longer to come to the forefront.
Doctors aren't always so great at connecting the dots.
More importanlty, efficacy data has been debated, and re-evaluated in recent years. Early data falsely suggested that 80% of people get better on antidepressants. More recent (sobering) data suggests that less than half of people get better. Inteed less than half of all clincial trials for antidepressants show superiority of drug over placebo.
So, you're right, we do have accumulating data, but its not all as positive as some people would like to believe.
>What is the ultimate thing, to reverse all >agents overnight so we're left back with >lobotomy drills, cold baths, and insulin >injections ? I think we'd all implode. Its 2007.I'm not saying that. I am just saying that when a new, presumably superior drug comes to the market, drug companies all of a sudden become less concerned about the image of their previous blockbuster.
>As for Breggin, well, I can't even go there, >this descends into a please be civil discussion, >but what can I say, in my opinion only he >contributes far worse to psychiatry than any >benefit.I see him as a necessary voice. He goes places, and asks people to concider possabilities that people would rather not consider. What if ECT does cause irreversable brain dammage? What if SSRI's corkscrew serotonin receptors? etc. etc. Its important, since we are trying to make the brain healthier, and a lifetime is a very long time. It would be a horrable thing to waste on a fad.
>As for whether the proof of concept that >transmitters are changed, I worked for a leading >expert in OCD and brain chemistry. This was >still in the earlier days of PET scans but it >conclusively showed that brain chemical changes >occurred whether an SSRI was used, behaviour >therapy was used, or both. It didn't matter, >electrical changes in the caudate nucleus was >apparent in all cases.I agree with you. There are abnormalities in brain metabolism. Recovery, in any form, is associated with ameleoration of those abnormalities. I would assume that those on the SSRI's who didn't get better still maintained the pathalogical metabolism. So, it prooves that recovery is associated with brain changes, not necessarily that a drug was responsable for brain changes.
>And by this point I've taken for granted almost >the side effects that have hit my body -- >they're awful and I would never have stood them >years ago but what can I do? Go back to square >one when I was suicidal ? That certainly isn't >positive.Its not my place to tell people what to do. If they work for you then great. I just think it is important to note the cases where things got much worse, that way people who encounter a similar issue won't feel so alienated.
Linkadge
poster:linkadge
thread:739762
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20070308/msgs/740003.html