Posted by Michael Bell on April 30, 2006, at 11:32:23
In reply to Re: D-Cycloserine, posted by Tom Twilight on April 29, 2006, at 13:21:31
Tom, how's it going? Yeah, I haven't been coming to the boards as much b/c i've been really busy, and the Nardil has curbed the social phobia to a large degree. Anyway, here's an update:
First, I'll give u a little history: I have severe social phobia without depression. Over the course of several years, I have tried the following substances for SP:
Prozac - sucked big time
Picamilon - somewhat helpful
Reboxetine - sucked
Deprenyl (selegiline) - horrible, never again!
Theanine - somewhat helpful
Amisulpride - somewhat helpful
Gabob - noticed nothing
Tianeptinie - hardly any response
Percocat (opioid) - works, but felt like zombie
buprenorphine - didn't seem to do much
Adderall - sucks, never again
Adrafinil - somewhat helpful, strange drug
Klonopin - kills physical anxiety, but causes depression
Nardil (old) - destroyed social phobia
Nardil (new) - very helpful for social phobia, but effectiveness varies with different batches and is inconsistent.
Phenibut - seems effective, more info needed
oxytocin - half life way too short
Cycloserine - will try soon
There are more, but can't remember them all...
Discussion: As u probably know, Nardil is one of the most effective drugs for social phobia for many people, myself included. However, it does not seem to help with the obsessive/ruminating thoughts that many SP people have. Look at Ace, for example. He gets an extremely robust response from Nardil, but has been looking for a long time for something to stop his OCD symptoms. Also, the current version of Nardil is, in one word, inconsistent.There is no doubt that GABA-ergic drugs such as Klonopin, Nardil and GHB are the most effective out there for SP. However, while they really help the "anxiety" portion of SP, I'm not so sure that they help the "ruminating thoughts/lack of prosociability/interpersonal connections" aspect of it. In other words, the underlying thought processes still exist, but the physical manifestations of those thought processes are controlled.
This is why I am so interested in cycloserine. It takes a completely different approach from the above-mentioned drugs Instead of managing symptomology, it actually seems to help in unlearning fear responses and stopping fear responses from become a part of your physiology, so to speak. Therefore the foundation that is layed for social anxiety and built upon as the years progress is ripped down and is not built up again once the NMDA agonist is in the system. Regarding oxytocin, it is one substance in the brain that is actually proven to be a sociabilizer (cause prosocial activity), and is an anxiolytic substance in of itself. It is interesting to note that oxytocin interacts with GABA-a and GABA-b receptors, as well as with dopamine to create its effects. Unfortunately, the oxytocin that can currently cross the blood-brain barrier has a half -life of barely a few minutes, so its therapeutic effect is questionable at best.
About Phenibut: I have been taking some Phenibut along with Nardil for the last several weeks, and it seems to help, but I don't know how much effectiveness to attribute to the Phenibut as opposed to the Nardil. However, my Nardil supply ran out a few days ago, so it looks like I will be on Phenibut alone for at least a weeks, so I'll have a better idea of its effects. I will update the board on Phenibut in about a week to discuss the results.
Plan of action: 1)Renew the Nardil so I have a supply of it if I want to go back on it again.
2) Stick to Phenibut only (+ Niacinamide) for the next 1-2 weeks. 3)Order cycloserine and use it in conjunction with self-help CBT tapes and exposure to fear-inducing social situations.We'll see how it goes. Wish me luck!
poster:Michael Bell
thread:638044
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20060429/msgs/638378.html