Posted by zeugma on December 9, 2004, at 15:46:53
In reply to Re: J-shaped curve » zeugma, posted by Larry Hoover on December 8, 2004, at 22:28:58
> > > Anyone seen this?
> > >
> > > Heavy coffee drinking and the risk of suicide.
> > >
> > > Tanskanen A, Tuomilehto J, Viinamaki H, Vartiainen E, Lehtonen J, Puska P.
> > >
> > > Department of Psychiatry, University of Kuopio, Finland. antti.tanskanen@kuh.fi
> > >
> > > Earlier research has implicated coffee drinking as a possible protective factor for suicide. We followed-up 43,166 subjects for the mean 14.6 years, and 213 suicides were committed. Daily coffee drinking had a J-shaped association with the risk of suicide. Using the Cox model we controlled for potential covariates, and found that among heavy coffee drinkers (> or = 8 cups/day) the risk of suicide was 58% higher compared with more moderate drinkers.
> > >
> > > Ed.
> >
> > A J-shaped curve implies that although >8 cups/day isn't as good as more moderate amounts, it is still better than not drinking coffee at all?
>
> No, you've got the J backwards.
>
> At no coffee intake, there is some moderate risk of suicide. As coffee intake increases from zero, the risk falls to some arbitrary minimum, but then begins to increase again. It rises exponentially to an asymptote, in this case set at 8 cups per day.
>
> It's a U-curve, but with the Y co-ordinates for low X values suppressed, from a symmetry about the minimum perspective.Thanks, Lar. it's my dyslexia! I see a lot of things backwards- I read the 'J' from right to left.
>
> > if that's the case, then Ritalin may be an AD for me after all- by getting me to moderate my coffee consumption. I typically make 3 cups of coffee at a time, and this morning, after taking my morning dose, found that my craving for caffeine was so mild that I only drank a cup and a half. I may have a little more lite coffee (half the caffeine) to keep myself going through the early evening, but it would be great if I was able to avoid the 'hook' of that J-shaped curve through Ritalin.
> >
> > If I relied on NoDoz, I'd be popping them all day long. My tolerance to caffeine is very high (been drinking huge quantities for many years in frantic attempts at self-medication).
> >
> > -z
>
> In that case, Ritalin sounds like an excellent adjunct.
>
> Lar
>
I agree, it wakes me up and makes me less reliant on coffee. Unfortunately, it simply doesn't help my emotional state (it intensifies my anxiety) and also worsens impulsivity. In contrast, Provigil improved impulsivity, was somewhat anxiolytic, and would have allowed me to see the J-shaped curve for what it was. I recommended provigil for dyslexia on this board, in fact, although my case is so idiosyncratic that extrapolations may be invalid. I was told by an expert in dyslexia that i do indeed have it, but a 'non-classical' case. I can't take Provigil due to side effects. And the Ritalin, although it doesn't hit me with the kind of somatic problems that the provigil did, is simply not helping my ADD much. I am dealing with a difficult constellation of anxiety, sleep, and learning/attentional disorders that is very hard for me to handle, and I have an appt. with a new pdoc who may be more familiar with this constellation than my present one.thanks again,
z
poster:zeugma
thread:424591
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041206/msgs/426806.html