Posted by Michael Bell on May 5, 2004, at 0:38:42
In reply to Re: Dopamine agonists (and CCK) - LONG POST! » Michael Bell, posted by Geoffrey Ruch on April 13, 2004, at 0:47:51
Sorry it took so long to reply. I'd like to address a couple issues you raised. My responses are in CAPS under your statements
> Thank you Michael and "King Vultan" very much for your insights. I appreciate that you responded so quickly.
>
> I don't know why the web site I visited regarding Social Phobia specifically recommended Parnate over Nardil, but it certainly did-- and pretty emphatically. I'll have to look back at that and re-read what it says.DEFINITELY DO AS MUCH RESEARCH AS POSSIBLE. THE MORE INFORMED YOU ARE, THE MORE CONFIDENT YOU'LL BE WHEN TALKING TO P-DOCS. LIKE I SAID, IF PARNATE WORKS FOR YOU, STICK WITH IT, BUT I CAN TELL YOU IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE NARDIL DESTROYED SOCIAL PHOBIA.
>
> Anyway, I'm hoping that if you, Michael, are correct in that Nardil has the distinct advantage over Parnate of inhibiting the breakdown of GABA, that either adding Klonopin to Parnate (which I have been doing with modest success), and/or adding GABAergic herbs such as Ashwagandha and/or Gotu Kola and/or Valerian and/or others; and/or adding L-Theanine (a GABA "manufacturer" from Green Tea), etc. might make up for the lack of GABAergic properties of Parnate.
>
ALSO CHECK OUT PICAMILON, WHICH IS GABA COMBINED WITH NIACIN. L-THEANINE WORKED OKAY FOR ANXIETY. NEVER TRIED VALERIAN OR ASHWAGANDHA.> With respect to the Klonopin, which I have been taking 2mg of each day, I really don't want to be taking that for very long because of its potential for dependency. The web site I read said not to worry about this, but eventually I think it would be wise of me to cut down and go off of it somewhere down the road-- if not sooner.
>
THIS IS A HOTLY DEBATED TOPIC. BENZOS CAN BE HABIT FORMING, BUT MANY DOCTORS CLAIM THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR THOSE WITH TRUE PHYSIOLOGICAL ANXIETY DISORDERS. I'VE BEEN TAKING ABOUT 1MG A DAY OF KLONOPIN FOR A WHILE, AND DO NOTICE SOME REBOUND ANXIETY IF I SKIP A FEW DAYS. EITHER WAY, ASK YOURSELF THIS: WOULD YOU RATHER BE MED-FREE BUT COMPLETELY OWNED BY YOUR SOCIAL ANXIETY, OR RISK POSSIBLE DEPENDENCY ON A DRUG THAT DOES WONDERS FOR THE ANXIETY? REMEBER, YOU CAN ALWAYS TAPER OFF WHEN A BETTER MED COMES ALONG IN THE FUTURE.
> And one more thing I wanted to "reveal" is that I have been adding a small dosage of 5-Hydroxy-Tryptophan (5HTP) as well as a small dosage of L-Phenylalanine (LPA). The 5HTP is obviously to enhance Serotonin levels, and the LPA is primarily to enhance the production of 2-Phenylethylamine (PEA, the brain's amphetimine "love molecule")-- DL-Phenylalanine (DLPA) might be a better choice, adding the demention of inhibiting the breakdown of endorphins; and perhaps DLPA is slightly more safe (I don't know). I realize that this could be a risky endeavor (and that these "supplements" usually are pretty strongly contraindicated with MAO inhibitors), but I have not had any problems with them so far. And I have read (from what seem to reputable sources) that these could potentially be helpful if used cautiously/wisely. I'm trying to be very careful (eg. checking my blood pressure regularly), and I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to anybody. I just have been debilitated by depression and anxiety/fear for so long that I feel like I need to take a chance. I kind of feel like I am on a depression/Social Phobia "cocktail," and I guess I'll see how it works out. [Note: I know that 5HTP is contraindicated because of the potential for the "Serotonin Syndrome," but I must say that I am confused about why Phenylalanine and Tyrosine are so contraindicated with MAOi's. I can understand large dosages being a very bad idea, but technically/scientifically I guess I just don't understand what the risk is, especially in small dosages.]
>
PHENYLALANINE AND TYROSINE ARE (GENERALLY) CONVERTED INTO DOPAMINE, WHICH CONVERTS INTO NORADRENALINE. YOU DON'T WANT TO INCREASE NORADRENALINE RELEASE WHEN TAKING AN MAOI. BY THE WAY, RECENT STUDIES OF DPLA HAVE CONTRADICTED THE EARLIER CLAIMS THAT DPLA INHIBITS THE BREAKDOWN OF ENDORPHINS.> By the way, I just want to add, also, that I understand that healing depression and anxiety disorders, depending on the individual, often must involve much more than changing brain chemistry through medications, herbs, amino acids, etc. Supposedly Interpersonal psychotherapy or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (and others) can be very effective treatments in their own right-- with severe cases most likely needing both types of treatment synergistically. I have gone the therapy route several times throughout the years (in addition to medication) with little success, but I still believe that at some point it is going to prove very important.
>
I'M SURE THAT CBT CAN HELP WITH CHANGING CERTAIN THOUGHT PATTERNS AND HOW YOU PERCEIVE SITUATIONS. BUT I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT MANY CASES OF GENERALIZED SOCIAL PHOBIA ARE STRICTLY PHYSIOLOGICALLY BASED. THERE IS A BRAIN CHEMICAL DISFUNCTION AT WORK, AND MEDS ARE IMPORTANT IN REMEDYING THAT.
> Anyway, I welcome any responses to my post. Thank you.I WISH YOU THE BEST.
poster:Michael Bell
thread:205134
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040429/msgs/343484.html