Posted by Veagus on September 20, 2003, at 23:00:27
In reply to Re: Klonopin excellent so far.... but a question » Veagus, posted by Ame Sans Vie on September 17, 2003, at 21:27:08
I cheated (in the name of science) and took 6mg today. My first 2mg (morning) worked very well for a few hours, the chest tension was gone and I felt great. My second 2mg (midday).... mentally calm, but did nothing to relieve the chest tension... in fact it gradually worsened. My third 2mg (evening), I develped a blank mind (a symptom previously relieved by GABA supplements) and the full dead tension in my chest. The Klonopin potentiates the GABA receptors, and my theory is the high doses steadily depleted my GABA levels as the day progressed (perhaps I have a faulty GABA production system).
So a high dose may not be the solution. I need to attack this from both angles - Increasing GABA effectiveness (Klonopin), and maintaining healthy GABA levels. I've done some more research and found some encouraging things!
First thanks for the tip on Picamilon, which is proven to increase brain GABA levels. Surely much more efficently than simply swallowing GABA. Mine is in the mail.
Second, I will try Neurontin, also proven to increase brain GABA levels (mechanism unknown). Regarding combining Klonopin and Neurontin, I was encouranged by this by quote from Micael:
"Takes a bit of getting use to...but when you do you feel that "fire" in your belly is gone, and you're off to a 'normal" day. Klonopin, I feel saved my life....now Neurontin just helps me live it to the fullest ever."
(From http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/19991123/msgs/15698.html)
Third here is an interesting link on Klonopin.
http://www.cfsresearch.org/cfs/cheney/18nf.htm
Who knows who this Cheney guy is, but the article makes sense. People who need a benzo for healthy brain function will have little side effect and perhaps, initially, mild sedation. People who do not will have worse side effects (sleepiness, memory loss, depressive states etc.) Maybe this is too simplified but I'm trying to come to terms with taking benzos long term. Klonopin (in the right dose) gives me a renewed focus, wakefulness, and enthusiasm every time... so bottom line, if my brain isn't screaming neurotoxicity and drug cravings I'm sticking with it.
> I'd suggest getting your doctor comfortable with raising the dose to whatever it takes for *you* to feel comfortable. Don't worry about tolerance -- it doesn't happen. You'll become tolerant to any sedative effects you may have, but anti-anxiety effects will always remain. And that pretty much answers your concern about side effects as well -- it's the *side effects* you grow tolerant to, *not* the therapeutic effects.
>
> Aa for GABA to increase effects of benzos, I'd bet it's a placebo effect. Picamilon (GABA bonded to niacinamide, capable of crossing the BBB) and GABOB (gamma-amino-beta-oxybate -- sort of a cross between GABA and GHB) have a definite effect on benzodiazepine potency though. So if your doctor doesn't want to increase your dose and you feel it isn't adequate, you can "naturally" increase its effectiveness with one of these. Inderal (propranolol) also potentiates clonazepam and might even help with that chest tension you mentioned, since it's a blood-pressure med. Finally, cimetidine (Tagamet) taken about 15-20 minutes before your Klonopin dose will increase its effects by about 25%. Tagamet increases Xanax's effects by about 50%, and doubles the effect of Halcion. Finally, Serzone also increases most benzodiazepines' effects and has a mild anxiolytic/antidepressant effect of its own.
poster:Veagus
thread:260535
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030917/msgs/262069.html