Posted by Larry Hoover on August 18, 2003, at 18:02:59
In reply to Re: For Katia and Larry, posted by BobS. on August 17, 2003, at 20:23:15
> > Sorry, Bob, for the delay in replying. Kids are a demanding responsibility.
> >
> But fun, I go empty nest in two weeks. Yup, didn't start a family until I was 40. How old are your kids?? Enjoy them, no matter how demanding.My boys are 11 and 9. The elder one is just hitting puberty, and is just beginning therapy (family and individual) for depression. He's got my genes.
I wouldn't trade my kids for anything.
> > Given your intuitive "diagnosis" that you're leaning towards a bipolar spectrum pattern, wouldn't mood stabilization be a desired outcome? What about lithium?
>
> Afraid, even at a sub-clinical level. My eight year struggle with SSRIs precludes any experimentation with "big gun" drugs.I don't know if lithium would qualify for that sort of label. I'm not trying to talk you out of your position.
> > > Larry,
> > > I have had a number of diagnoses over the years ranging from panic disorder to "soft" BP II. Current pdoc is a psycho pharmacologist only. He is very good but very unconcerned about prescribing high doses of this or that. Fortunately, he is not afraid of the benzophobes and that's why I take Xanax. Half life notwithstanding, it works.
> >
> > "afraid of the benzophobes".... That's an interesting phrase.
>
> The pdoc believes in the value of benzos and believes that the anti-benzo crowd are a form of religious zealots...I'm glad you have this guy on your side. I simply cannot understand the benzophobic trend I'm seeing.
> > Rhetorical question:
> > Once you recognize that you tolerate benzos, and have a doc who'll prescribe them, it seems reasonable to try different ones, doesn't it? You still experience "anxiety breakthrough" episodes.
>
> He thinks Xanax is better than Klonopin even with the half life issue. Next visit we go to Xanax XR.Cool.
> > > My symptoms are primarily anxiety; symptoms go up and down in severity. The anxiety, or anxiety like symptoms, was worse when I was required to take a SSRI by my earlier doctors, which is the reason I don't like SSRIs. I can go for months feeling quite normal, then the anxiety picks up, and I get down and unhappy. I can spend weeks in this condition and then return to "normal." I have read about anxious depression, hypomania and irritability, BP II atypical depression (I have rejection sensitivity)but not "leaden paralysis" whatever the hell that is.
> >
> > Extreme lethargy, would be my definition.
>
> Then why not say that. There's something wrong with the DSM IV...I certainly agree with you on that. Don't get me started.....
> > > I would like to find out if I am bipolar, primarily for the sake of my children.
> >
> > How old are your children? My intuition makes me wonder if there are loved ones around you who do not accept your mental health issues. Or, are your simply trying to learn enought that you can help your children do all they can to avoid some of the struggles you've faced?
>
> It's the latter. 20 and 18. The younger has social phobia (mild, but somewhat troublesome). I had him in CBT 3 years ago and now he seems to be on all fours. Has a girl friend is looking forward to college. He takes .25 Xanax prn. The older one is a little spacey, which I attribute to mild anxiety, but he's doing ok. If bi-polar is an issue, I want to cut it off at the pass so to speak.Just talking about it is the major thing, helping them develop a sort of pseudo-objectivity about how they are handling things.....self-assessment tools, coping strategies, that sort of thing. And, hammering home the impact of the horrid "North American Diet": carb overload, nutrient loss during processing, fatty acid imbalances... I really believe that diet is the predominant precipitating factor for the increase in the prevalence of all sorts of mental illness. Anyway, that's how I'm approaching things with my boys.
> > > Also, I would be prepared to take action on the behalf of my children, now when they are young.
> >
> > OK, you answered my question.
>
> Young in a relative sense, 18 and 20 as I mentioned above. They know about anxiety, since they each have seen the same pdoc as me.You mentioned CBT, earlier. Is that ongoing, too?
> > One of the most important things you can offer your children is a knowledge of what you've been through. Given your age, I know that you grew up in a social climate that put a huge stigma on mental illness. Mental illness was often seen as a character flaw. It was hidden. It was denied.
> >
>
> Actually, I did quite well, anxiety notwithstanding, until I was 52.Please forgive the assumptions I made.....It's hard not to assume (and to project) when one is forced to dialogue via a message board.
> I had 7 years of individual and group therapy when it was still paid for and it helped me very much. The last nine years have been a bitch. All starting with a lot of stress (layoffs, restructuring, etc), and jumping from one med to another prescribed by GPs and benzophobe pdocs. TCA, for one week, Prozac, Buspar, Xanax, withdraw from Xanax to avoid addiction. Go back on Valium. And so forth. Paxil was the worst.
I don't tolerate meds, and I've tried a lot of them over the years. Many were worse than the symptoms for which I sought treatment. So, on to alternatives....
> > Without consciously deciding to do so, it is inevitable that you internalized some of that social message. Somehow, you just weren't trying hard enough. That's a stressor, in itself. From your genes' perpsective, your cognitive processes can be stressors. Being at peace with your mental state, "It is. I am.", accepting it for what it is, can reduce that cognitive stressor.
> >
>
> The stressor for me is wondering about bi-polar and whether the meds listed above triggered it.First, that's unknowable. You'll never answer that with certainty (whether the meds did it). With respect to bipolar, and the children, your own family tree may be more informative than trying to extrapolate from your own symptoms. Do you have a family medical history to consider?
Finally, does it matter much what you call it? Symptom management doesn't require a firm diagnosis.
> > Did your doctor know you had diverticulosis? Did he do an occult blood test before recommending aspirin?
>
> Yes. Plus a colonoscopy at 51 and 56. I'm in good question. For 61 I am in excellent physical condition. I have been jogging for 30 years, BP is 110/70.Wow!
>Resting heart rate of 55.
Maybe you just ought to take it easy? <wink>
> Other than diverticula, I do not have any medical conditions, except cholesterol and sine wave anxiety. I have had an "ultra fast" cat scan of the heart and a full blown stress test. Both were normal. I think docs push statins just like SSRIs. Remember the NY Times article.
I would avoid statins. Too many uncertainties, and there are other things you can do.
> I am going back on the omega-3. Just ordered some from the aerobic guru, Kenneth Cooper's website. And will try niacinamide as you recommend.I find that the niacinamide can make me feel tired, so I've started taking it at bedtime. That may be an idiosyncratic reaction.
> Thanks for all your help and keep us "posted" pun intended.
> Regards,
> BobS.Glad to chat with you.
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:250389
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030818/msgs/251928.html