Posted by Larry Hoover on August 16, 2003, at 7:35:00
In reply to Re: Tracy's tapes » Larry Hoover, posted by MB on August 15, 2003, at 12:53:28
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> > OK. I got 3/4 of the way through the first one, and I just had to turn it off. I can only take so much bad science at one time....
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> Heh heh, yeah, it *was* bad, but I wanted you to listen to it yourself before I told you just how bad it was (didn't want to predjudice you against it).Nahh. You can't prejudice me. I'm already too opinionated.
> But as bad as it was, I *did* find some evidence on medline for SSRI-induced increases in cortisol levels.
She (and her ilk) can only succeed if there is a core of verifiable truth buried somewhere in her wild extrapolations and hyperbole.
> "SSRIs are a slow fuse LSD..." ROTFLMAO!!! And when she says PCP and SSRIs work in similar ways; Puh-leeez. I always confuse NMDA receptor agonists with serotonin transporter antagonists. They're just so similar <sarcasm>.
Totally intended as an aside, here, but these hyperbole-peddlers actually do a disservice to the product they are trying to promote. Though sales may temporarily increase, most users are going to see through the deception soon enough. But the reaction to that will then be skepticism, and more broadly, skepticism towards any similar product (e.g. herbs). The pharmaceutical industry depends on herbs for nearly all of its ideas (they have been quietly buying up the rights to all herbs in certain geographical areas, and copyrighting the knowledge bases of indigenous groups/healers), and a substantial portion of its raw materials. Yet, if you ask "the guy on the street", you'll probably hear that "herbs are worthless", or similar. Because of the hucksters. Big pharma isn't fooled.
> > I don't know where to start. I wish I kept notes while I listened. She's saying SSRIs cause Alzheimer's? And links to the Bible are truly bizarre, IMHO.
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> Yeah, she's got a PhD in "Health Sciences."I could have one of those by tomorrow. It might be worth as much as hers, too.
> It's not like shes an MD or a pharmacologist or even a biologist. I agree, when the "scientist" starts supporting hypotheses with Bible quotes, I'm very weirded-out.
That was the weirdest part for me.
> > Some depressives are high-cortisol. Some are low. Some are hypo-responsive to adrenal challenge (e.g. dexamethasone challenge). Some are not. Are they different diseases, or the same disease at a different stage (I'm thinking something along the line of the different stages of stress adaptation, where the final stage is exhaustion). You'd have to have more than anecdote to determine if Cushing's syndrome (or anything masquerading as such) has anything whatsoever to do with SSRIs (or any drug). Geographic clusters of any symptom could very well be nothing more than a virus attacking people with comingled genes (people in one location tend to marry people from the same location).
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> My depressive symptoms are more of the atypical variety (reverse vegetative: hypersomnia, comfort eating, some mood reactivity, worse in the morning, better in the evening...). So, my cortisol levels might be low to begin with. It could be that increased cortisol might not even be a bad thing for me.There is a possibility, as well, that your diurnal cortisol release is not synchronized properly; i.e. it's highest at the wrong time of day, or, it may simply be stable, rather than going up and down the way it should.
There are a few ways you can gather information. If you can get your doctor to do it, get a two-week supply of a physiological dose (i.e. similar to your normal blood level, rather than the much higher doses used to suppress immune irregularities) of hydrocortisone. If you feel better on that, your adrenals are hypofunctional.
Alternatively, you could try a raw adrenal glandular (usually bovine source, I think). It's dried adrenal gland tissue, and will contain all the biochemicals found in, and released by, the adrenals, rather than focussing on one such chemical, hydrocortisone.
Or, you could try licorice root. You don't want the DGL form, as it has had the very thing you want removed from it.
> > > Yeah, I think it's worth the risk. I would like to get my cortisol levels tested, though. My doctor would probably think I was crazy for asking...
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> > Probably not, actually, if my own doctor can serve as an example. Get your DHEA/DHEA-S tested at the same time.
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> DHEA...is that an androgen precursor?More than just androgens.
> I think I've taken that before. My reaction was weird...started having to shave twice a day and I broke out in acne. Called the doctor and found out that I was accidentally taking my daily dose three times a day (miscommunication on dosing instructions). LOL!
Given the "hormone precursor" status of DHEA, dose is of extreme importance.
One product of DHEA is cortisol (hydrocortisone). The sulphated form DHEA-S is reserve DHEA. By studying the balance between these chemicals, you can see if there is a loss of sensitivity to feedback inhibition, or conversion problems, or whatever.
> > Exercise has benefits apart from endorphin release. <intentional understatement>
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> > Best,
> > Lar
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> Yeah, I definitely need to get out more and exercise. When I was depressed, I felt "too depressed" to exercise. Now that I'm on clonazepam and Lexapro, I'm "too unmotivated" to exercise. Excuses, excuses...I just need to do it <like Nike says>
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> MBWell, Lar says it, too.
Be well,
Lar
poster:Larry Hoover
thread:241945
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030812/msgs/251279.html