Posted by Caleb462 on May 16, 2003, at 0:52:47
In reply to Re: STRESS CYCLE - theory about anxiety treatment » Caleb462, posted by Michael Bell on May 15, 2003, at 23:40:19
> Caleb462 - no offense, but you're mistaken. Stress does cause opioid levels to diminish. Opioids are released to combat the stress. Once released, the overall levels of opioids diminish. Eventually a point is reached reaches where there are not enough of these "feel good" chemicals to adequately fight all the stress, and so the physiological responses are in evidence. Interestingly, you say that high opioid "activity" causes low GABA/high dopamine, and I think you're making my point without realizing it. High opioid "activity" is taking place BECAUSE the opioids are being released to combat the stress. In other words, opioids are released during stress (hence the high activity), which causes the "stock" levels to decrease. It's the same type of idea with dopamine. When dopamine is released, the overall brain levels of the neurotransmitter decrease, and the supply is restocked through either more dopamine production, reuptake, etc.
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I never stated that stress did not cause opiod levels to diminish. Temporarily, it quite possibly does. And over a long period of time (as is seen with anxiety disorders, etc.), there probably is a desperate lack of endegenous mu/delta opiod activity. Whether this is directly related to a physical deficit in the opiods cannot be said with any certainty however.Anyway... I was simply arguing the neurochemistry. HIGH opiod activity will cause high dopamine activity/low GABA activity - that's just how the brain works. Part of the reason opiods are rewarding is that they prevent GABA from inhibiting dopamine release.
> And no, I'm not selling BCalmed. Though I probably should, if it would let me keep my cable on for more than a month at a time, heh heh. I laughed when I read that b/c I had just been thinking today that with all the money I've spent on medication & supplements, I should've probably just taken that money and invested in one of these companies!
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> And finally... of course the brain is much more complex than just adjusting the "highs and lows" of neurotransmitter levels. Trust me, I have no doubt that we've barely even tapped the surface of the brain's potential and physiology. But the fact that no one truly knows how the brain really works should not stop people from theorizing and discussing these things. We don't know how a lot of things in this world work, but we'd still be in the dark ages if we never challenged ourselves to find out how they do. My point was just that maybe there's another system that we've been forgetting about.
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> Later.No argument here. However, dealing with the opiod system directly is tricky. Mu-agonists will never be effective anti-depressants for the majority of people, oh sure, they are THE best anti-depressants available. Of course, they inevitably lead to tolerance, depedance, addiction, withdrawl, etc. For a small minority of depressed people, mu-agonists should be an available option - but it's never going to be widespread.
What needs to be explored are things like Delta-agonists and kappa-antagonists, though who knows when this will happen.Interestingly, however, current anti-depressants DO indirectly effect the opiod system. Those on SSRIs long term, for instance, generally show a higher level of beta-endorphins.
Sorry if my previous post (or this one!) came off as rude or anything, I tend to do that on occasion without realizing it.
poster:Caleb462
thread:226952
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030514/msgs/226985.html