Posted by Ron Hill on March 7, 2002, at 2:11:30
In reply to Here are the answers » JohnX2, posted by Jill K. on March 4, 2002, at 19:20:29
Jill,
I am very sorry that you are stuck in a depression. Been there, done that, no fun! I wish I could wave a magic wand to make it all better.
I will not be presumptuous and pretend that I know the solution to your specific brain chemistry problems. On the contrary, I will merely pass along that which gave me back my life in hopes that it might benefit you as well. (I just have a hunch that this could help you).
I'm Bipolar II. Lithobid adequately controls my hypomania but does nothing for my depression. Any of the SSRI's will take away my "I want to die" mood but leaves me with side effects (loss of ambition, loss of energy, lack of motivation, blunted emotions, etc). I have tried a ton of other ADs over the years, but I will not bore you with the details.
Four months ago I went to my regularly scheduled visit with my pdoc. At the time, I was only taking Li because of the AD side effects. Depression was a problem for me at the time. My pdoc had recently reviewed several studies showing success in treating depression using SAM-e in conjunction with an AD and success using SAM-e alone. He suggested that I take two 200 mg SAM-e tablets daily in conjunction with 25 mg of Zoloft. (I am hypersensitive to most medication so I take small doses). Initially, I was skeptical because over the years I have taken a lot of over-the-counter supplements, most of which did very little to ease my depression. But I told my pdoc that I would give it a try.
Initially I could only take one 200 mg tablet of SAM-e every other day. If I took more, I would experience side effects (flush, nausea, confused thinking, general ill feeling, "skin crawling"). However,within about five days, my depression began to lift and I now have my life back. Yeah!!! Currently, I take one 200 mg tablet daily without any adverse side effects. In total I daily take 600 mg Lithobid, 12.5 mg Zoloft, and 200 mg SAM-e. Eventually, I plan to discontinue the small amount of Zoloft.
Bottom line: 200 mg SAM-e daily has helped me more than any of the many ADs I've tried over the years.
It is very important to take plenty of B-6, B-12 (sublingual form) and folate with the SAM-e. Also take SAM-e on an empty stomach. SAM-e, like many perscription ADs, can induce mania in bipolar patients if the patient is not taking an adequate amount of a mood stablizer.
SAM-e is a naturally occurring compound and is manufactured by the human body. However, some people do not produce enough of it and supplementation may be beneficial.
SAM-e is involved in a plethora of various biochemical reactions in the human body. It functions as a very important methyl group donor. With regard to mood and related brain chemistry, SAM-e serves as the methylating agent in the biochemical reaction mechanism whereby various neurotransmitters (serotonin and dopamine in particular) are synthesized from amino acids in dietary protein.
For me personally, SAM-e has turned out to be a lifesaver! I have waited to post on this topic until I gave it some time to make sure it did not poop out right away. So far I have four months of excellent results and absolutely no hint of poop out.
Here are some links to articles on the topic. Do some research (use "SAM-e" in search engine). Buy a good name brand to ensure product quality.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/sameart.html
http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/living/inyourhead/allinyourhead_36.html
http://www.psycom.net/depression.central.same.html
http://www.mhsource.com/expert/exp1041299b.html
http://www.arthritissupport.com/track/goto/rtgoto30l.cfm
-- Ron
--------------------------------------------------
>
> > Now were missing some pieces of the Jill K
> > puzzle in these areas:
> >
> > 1) maybe a little more insight into your depression/anxiety
>
> I was shy and introverted growing up. I was always anxious in social situations. Last year in grad school I started getting panic attacks and I met my pdoc who started me on klonopin. With 0.5 mg, the panic left, with depression remaining.
>
> > Would you categorize it as Major Depression (feeling
> > really empty inside, can't experience pleasure at all,
> > think about dying)? Or are you primarily anxious and
> > maybe lacking motivation, interest in life, fearful
> > of social settings etc?
>
> I was primarily anxious and fearful of social settings. With the 0.5 mg klonopin, much of the anxiety is gone. Now with 200mg of neurontin three times a day, it is all gone. Now I am just depressed. Sleep when I get home and on weekends. All my hobbies and interests and friends I have dropped ... no energy or motivation.
>
>
> > 2) What were all the medicines you tried in the past
> > and what were the outcomes?
> >
> > Have you tried any of the default SSRIs (Zoloft,Celexa,etc).
> > Failures?
>
> I tried zoloft to 200 mg, feel numb and remained depressed. I also tried lamictal with no benefit and ritalin which increased my anxiety and then crashed after six hours.
>
> >
> > Tried MAOIs (Nardil is often prescribed for social phobiam
> > Parnate, Deprynyl are other options)?
>
> No
>
> > Ever tried an atypical antipsychotic like
> > Zyprexa/Geodon?
>
> No
>
> > What are your main concerns regarding starting a new
> > medication? That it will have bad side effects, it won't
> > effectively address your depression, etc?
> >
> > What kind of pain symptoms are you having?
>
> Pain is pure psychologic. I am so isolated and alone.
>
> > Of all your problems, were are you hurting most?
> >
> I think I have 2 main problems (1) panic/social anxiety (2) apathic depression. If I increase klonopin/neurontin no more anxiety, but more depression. When I tried ritalin and zoloft less depression, but HUGE anxiety.
>
> > Sorry for all the questions. But I think they
> > really would help us to give you better support.
> >
>
> No Problem. I love the fact that someone is helping me. If anyone can help me, I will owe then my life, because I haven't had a life for so many years.
>
> Your Friend,
>
> Jill
poster:Ron Hill
thread:96373
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020301/msgs/96842.html