Posted by gilbert on February 28, 2002, at 8:11:05
In reply to Re: benzos for alcoholics? » gilbert, posted by Elizabeth on February 28, 2002, at 0:01:09
Elizabeth
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> Huh, that's weird. What dose of Klonopin did you need, and what dose of Xanax worked comparably?
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>4-5mg per day klonpin 4 mg xanaxDid you find that benzos felt like alcohol in a way that was triggering, and if so, was there any difference between X and K in this regard? I've heard some people say that they don't "feel" Klonopin when it starts to work the way that they "feel" Xanax kick in. I'd expect this to influence the abuse/addiction potential, and the tendency to cause alcohol cravings.
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>No way did it feel like alcohol I dosed on regular schedules never abused the med to get high, I have already dumped the prozac I felt higher on an ssri than I do a benzo. The doc would not give me neurontin yet but told me to try trazadone and I take it in the morning it seems to block my panics but yowza I feel farily stoned on this drug it really slams you into a dizzying fog. I will not tolerate the sexual side effects and accept that as a apart of my life after 3 weeks on 10mg prozac I am sexual only sprodicallly instead of spermatically....lol. The xanax defintely felt stronger and for me was way more effective. I suppose I could try to find a doc willing to prescribe 5-6mg per day yet I have worked so hard I am down to 1.5mg per day so I want at least try a couple of new drugs first. But no more ssris, never ever never ever never.>
> I can tell. You've been perfectly rational, even though you're going through something that has to be very difficult for you (having to stop taking your Xanax). You certainly haven't said anything that suggests that you believe your experience applies to everybody else. And I absolutely agree, based on what you've said, that benzos probably aren't for you. I just hope you can find an adequate substitute.
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>Thank you Elizabeth I hope so too.
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> Heh. That weirds me out, when people say they feel good on benzos. For me, benzos just feel like of "slowing down" drugs (which makes sense, since they are CNS depressants). Calming, maybe a little bit sedating, but definitely not euphoric! Just one more example of how different we all are, eh?
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The smaller doses of xanax 2mg and under made me feel normal and God how I wish I could have stayed there I got 2 years on that dose then wammo no good. Larger doses made me feel not stoned but detached from life ....like a voyeur instead of a participant.
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> I understand. Normal was my holy grail for quite a while, too. (Now I'm trying to figure out how to get normal without the side effects.) I think that the desire to feel normal is what drives a lot of people to abuse drugs.
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> I've heard of that happening with SSRIs and mood stabilizers (i.e., antimanic drugs), but never benzos. I wonder how common it is.
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>God I wish everyone who attacks benzos and I have a little bit the past 2 weeks but honestly it just a greiveing process for me having to let go of the only med that has ever truly helped me. I do not need to be anti benzo because I am losing them like if I can't have them you can't either....fairly immature attitude. Anyways anyone who wants to attack benzos go on ssri's for a couple of months tell us about your quality of life. Has your wife left yet with the UPS man, as a male is the pride of loss of erection and argasm taken up most of your thinking day....I just can;t believe that people are willingly givng up their seuality in order to be in the ssri zombie like state.....makes no sense to me. I will try everything in the GNC before I go back on an ssri......Does trazadone rob you of your sex life as well,,,,I know about the priapism thing but am always suspiscious of drug companies who list this as a side effect like they say oh yeah as a side effect a permanent boner may occur......what a seductive sales pitch to sucker us into what may be drug enhancing sexual qualities of an antidepressant.
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> That sounds really awful. How long have you been feeling depressed? Other than the emotional dulling, is Prozac causing you any problems?
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Yes prozac blows. After 3 weeks semi impotence already setting in at 10mg per day. I feel speedy agitated and I want to crawl out of my skin...I am jumpy and feel not manic but panic. I would equate it to shoting up a double expresso every 2 hours.
I may end up as you say with a form of bipolar but the mood stabilzers......seems as scarry as the ssri's. I need a med that knocks me down a notch not levels me out not takes me up. I really believe many of my agitated panic states have been a direct result of ingesting ssri's.Odd recently switched my blood pressure med fron beta blocker to cardizem and feel less depresseed already.
> > So for now my problem is trying to stay motivated to stay alive.......This was a little dramtic I just needed some attention from all of you lovely people. I have a loving wife and a gorgeous 8 year old boy and would never do anythign to hurt them...plus if the depression got worse I would check in somewhere...there is a difference between feeling suicidal and doing it. I have too many reasons not to do it....would never blow away my son with that ever...I would endure much much more mental torture and have in the past.....I have had close friends and relatives do the deed and refuse trail left behind is stunning and unbearable for the survivors.
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I do know other alcoholics doing just fine on them and I do know some who have not. My sponsor 30 years sober take 2mg xanax per day for the past ten years has saved his ass he is doing great. An addiction therapist at the meeeting is bipolar and has to take the xanax to stay from getting manic only drug combo that works for him is sinequan and xanax. He had to go off lithium diue to kidney trouble and could not do depakote due to elevated liver enzymes. I think length of sobriety and therapy are important. The 12 steps do not fix everything and members who say so just haven't crashed yet. I do think that benzos are safe for long term sober alcohlics at a very high rate like 80-90%. I do think benzos may prevant relapse in those alcohlic who sufffer from panic and anxiety because booze was their original med. I think being sober longer like 5 years or more helps to treat the meds with more respect. This is also fine becuase most alcohlics don't even realize they have mental illness until they have been sober a while and many gor through sobriety thingking they 12 step away their bi polar or panic or personailty disorders and refuse medications...these are the ones I get te see layed out in caskest..Much like denying your alcoholic\sim it is so hard for an alcoholic to admit any dual diagnosis which is like 90% of the fellowship. Hey your drinking a fifth of vodka a day for a reason and I have rarely seen that occur on a pure addcition scale most are self nedcating for what is an underlying illness. The ones that awaken to this stand a chance of really getting well. If you take all the bi polars, unipolars, panic people schizophrenics and all other DSMV diagnoses out of an AA meeting you would be left with 2 hillbillies who just love to drink cuz they loved to drink. Most dramk to escape from the demaons of their mental illnesses ....let me qualify most of my friend and AA aquantenaces have been that way.I am sooo bummed out that I fall in that 20% who have to watch it....and again I did not like pop xanax and go look for hookers or get in bar room fights etc...I just had benzo poop out.
I apologize for some of my previous anti benzo posts again I am just venting if I can't have them damn it you can't either.....LOL
>> That'd be pretty cool. I think pagoclone is a partial agonist at the benzodiazepine receptor -- who knows what that will mean in regard to efficacy, but it probably will have milder side effects and withdrawal symptoms than the benzos. On the down side, I have no doubt whatsoever that it will be unbelievably expensive (another common characteristic of partial agonists <g>).
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Of course it seems to be all part of the game look at the cost of neurontin. All the good new drugs with patents get pushed and wammo 200 per month. This part of the mental health medicine game irritaes me to no end. We are guinea pigs second and consumers first. The drug companies can't wait to get that new product out "Now coming annual prozac......You go to your docs he hooks jumper cables up to your scrotum makes you eat a green and white pill and bammo your just so damn happy for a year you need nothing else it's like heaven on earth...like those warm fuzzy paxil commercials which eerily look like a seen from Rosemary's Baby.....come,come back welcome back to our lair of deception, please..leave your sexuality at the door, there is no room for sex here on planet paxil, just be gretfull to alive and limp and eager to indulge in a dazzling array of carohydrates with us.Thanks E always appreciate yours and Alans post especially two very well written well informed people.
Gil
poster:gilbert
thread:94946
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020222/msgs/95802.html