Posted by Elizabeth on August 3, 2001, at 17:10:52
In reply to Re: jumping in » Elizabeth, posted by Lorraine on August 3, 2001, at 12:28:54
Hi Lorraine.
> Well, I do have ADD like cognitive issues now clearly.
I think I mentioned that I believe it's possible for ADD (or something similar) to manifest in adulthood, perhaps secondary to depression. I know that I've become more mentally disorganised.
> But what I'm talking about above just involves a level of energy, exhilerating, and exhaltation of self that seems odd. I mean I have come to "distrust" myself when I have a sudden interest in something. My husband distrusts it also and it has become somewhat of a joke among my friends "oh, that's just Lorraine, first she reads the 30 books on the subject, then...."
My suggestion: cherish your zeal and nurture it. It's precious.
> Yeah, who knows "why" it's working--it's not clear that it matters really.
I think it's important to research the reasons why drugs work as they do, but it's not necessary to know that for purposes of treating your difficulties. FWIW, when I tried Neurontin, the feeling reminded me of Xanax.
> A skipped dose of Effexor did this to me and withdrawal from it was really, really awful. Is there anything to alleviate MAOI withdrawal if it comes down to that?
I've found that benzos work well; not sure about non-benzodiazepine anticonvulsants. Psychostimulants might help also.
> There is also something called depression induced dementia, which has a lot of cognitive impairment features as you would expect.
Yes, I've heard of it. It's believed to be reversible, unlike degenerative dementias (e.g., Alzheimer's). Sometimes it's called "pseudodementia." It is sort of controversial whether it's completely a product of depression, although cognitive impairment is recognised as a sequela of depression; some believe that "depressive dementia" is the result of comorbid depression and dementia, not dementia as a result of depression.
> One cool thing about my pdoc is that he really cares about cognitive impairment.
My experience has been that they usually understand how important cognitive functioning is for me when I tell them I want to go to medical school. < g >
> Cognitive impairment is really awful I think especially if your life has revolved much around your intellectual activities. It must be distressing to you.
Very much so, yes.
> My SIL--who believes that depression is all in your mind--tells me to just sit with the depression and let it take it's course and quit fighting it. I tell her it is like asking someone to just sit with Alzheimers.
*groan* Yeah, a lot of people who've never been depressed [clinically, that is] seem to think they understand what we go through, even though it's obvious to us that they don't have a clue.
> I realized, for one thing, that I learn better by reading rather than listening to lectures--so I was always the student buying supplemental text books if I didn't understand a professor.
That's interesting. I learn better from lectures than from reading, I think. I wonder whether this difference has any broader significance.
> I'm very happy for you. The Desipramine seems to be a lucky ticket for you. (although i know you research it before taking it). I hope the blood levels prove ok.
The serum level was over 600 this time, so I'm cutting the dose in half. The doctor who's covering for my pdoc is supposedly going to call me on Monday to discuss what to do next.
> The ECT next step sounds right to me--plus they have that monitor that you strap on that monitors your heart for 24 hours for irregularities.
Okay, I'm confused now. What are you talking about here? (Sorry, I'm probably just being scatterbrained, as usual.)
> There is a degree of acknowledgment about mental illness and our lack of control over the disease that comes from taking a drug--plus all the stigma associated with it. My SIL believes that people who are mentally ill are self indulgent and that they take drugs as "cosmetic mood brighteners".
Oh jeez. That's just awful. I suppose she's never had a conversation with a homeless person before. Who's she to make that kind of judgement?
I've met a lot of people who have a hard time understanding or believing that I could ever have been very depressed, because when I'm not depressed I'm outgoing, inquisitive, etc.
About atenolol: my dad takes it (for cardiovascular disease), and he seems to be fine with it. I could ask him if he's noticed any side effects. (He takes a bunch of other things too -- hypertension is very complicated to treat -- so it might be hard to sort out what's doing what.)
> > Ahh, I can understand that. (Can I ask whence the scars? I don't think I've seen you mention that before.)
>
> 3d degree burns over 1/3 of my body (thighs and upper abdomine) when I was 8.My god. At least it's on parts that are usually covered by clothes. Still, I can see how that would cause you problems, especially with intimate relationships.
> > > > My dad's a professor (both my parents are) -- his field is philosophy and history of science. It's not light reading. < g >
>
> Doesn't sound like it, but it does sound like it is right up my husband's alley. He loves this stuff.Really? What particular interests does he have?
> > Small comfort. Still, it's probably less damaging if it happened when you were older.
>
> Yes, and it was mild, I don't believe he ever touched me. It was all about his self-pleasuring really.I'm a little confused by this remark, but if you don't feel comfortable I won't demand elaboration.
> certainly not the familial dystonia, which is incapacitating. I don't know--I've just read a lot about "muscle" tension and cramps being associated with meds. I get muscle cramps depending on my meds also. My muscle strength (during workouts) varies remarkably depending on my meds.Huh. Which meds have had which effects in that regard?
> > FWIW, the time that I was first diagnosed with depression (when I was 14), I was having very bad headaches. Prozac did away with them, so I have to credit it for that, at least.
>
> Some vascular relaxation thing or muscle relaxant type of action maybe.No idea what the cause was. Depression and pain syndromes often co-occur, though. It was very obvious to me that the Prozac was responsible for the headaches going away -- although I'm less certain that it actually caused my depression to remit!
> Interesting take on the issue. That the meds medicate a physiological problem.
Well, they have peripheral effects as well as central ones. And chronic pain is probably centrally mediated, I think.
> My chiropractor always said my back aches were mechanical in nature.
I'm dubious (of vague "diagnoses" made by chiropractors, that is). Did you ever get a more precise explanation?
> But my experience seems to prove otherwise. I guess the chicken and the egg question (do the med alleviate the symptoms or cause them) becomes apparent when you are off meds entirely. I haven't really tried this (for obvious reasons) < g >
I had the misfortune to be off antidepressants completely for several months after Nardil pooped out the second time. It was rough. I tried Paxil, selegiline, and Neurontin during that time, but they didn't really help.
> Yeah, I'm pretty high on him right now because of his ability to think outside the box--the fact that he let me do the 3 day wash out between MAOIs, that he was willing to try Moclobemide by writing rxs for a Canadian Pharmacy and the fact that he is willing to try meds fairly aggressively has me feeling pretty good about him right now.
Those are good traits for a pdoc, IMO.
> Yeah, I know. By the way, do you have Jensen's book--I find it really useful.
Jensen...which one is he? (No, I don't have his book.)
> > I think that a lot of different childhood disorders all get lumped together as "ADD."
>
> True. Amen identifies 6 types of ADD, but I think some of these are not ADD truly.Probably not. I perused his web site; neat stuff. I've been thinking about calling him up and asking if he can refer me to somebody closer to home who could interpret my SPECT scan.
> > May I offer a counterexample? I was 14 when I started taking Prozac, and while Prozac didn't cause me much difficulty, I most definitely did have a sexual identity by that age.
>
> elizabeth, this is really very helpful to me to hear.Good, I'm always gratified if I feel I've been able to help someone.
> also, i suppose there's the point of developing an identity and coping skills of someone who is depressed as opposed to healthy?
I think this really sums it up nicely, yes.
> No, she's not doing CBT. I've suggested it, but the logistics have been unmanagable because her mother (who had lost control over her completely) sent her to live with her father (who is more structured in his discipline approach) and to a smaller school (10 kids per class). She completely flunked out of 8th grade, 3 F's and 2 D's (in drill team and PE). So the problem had become an emergency.
Sure, she needs medication. But that doesn't preclude the possibility of CBT.
> Good luck on the Desipramine retest.
Sorry to disappointn, but as I mentioned earlier, I'm afraid I wasn't lucky. I guess one could say I failed the test. :)
-elizabeth
poster:Elizabeth
thread:67742
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010731/msgs/73394.html