Posted by ShelliR on April 14, 2001, at 10:11:27
In reply to Re: opiates » ShelliR, posted by Elizabeth on April 14, 2001, at 4:49:52
Elizabeth
> Shelli -- my experience is that when people become truly addicted (will discuss this some more later on), they remain that way possibly indefinitely -- they don't get "unaddicted," that is, they can't return to moderate use without getting sucked into pathological use again. >
That's an interesting point. When I was dependent (I'll call it, although all the docs were calling it addicted) on valium I never had a craving for it, it never made me high, just got rid of my dissociative feelings. I never saw the problem with it since (1) I do have a dissociative disorder which I was working on in therapy; (2) gereric valium is cheap and (3) there seemed little liklihood that the country would run out of valium.
When I went into the hospital for depression at that time, I did get myself off, but then they started prescribing it again. So basically, I got rid of some of the tolerance so I could start again at lower levels. I don't miss valium except I think when I get those same feelings, I think valium worked a lot better for these than klonopin.
And I have absolutely no regrets for taking it: it helped me function in a way that I would not have been able to function.So in that sense, I suppose it is very similar to what you are saying about the use of opiates, IF ALL ELSE HAS FAILED.
Regarding the use of the word "addiction", you are perhaps correct, although there is no one standard definition of addiction. The DSM-IV uses the expression "substance dependence":
A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any
time in the same 12-month period:
(1) Tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
a. A need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect.
b. Markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance.(2) Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
a. The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance
b. The same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.(3) The substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended (loss of control).
(4) There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use (loss of control).
(5) A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects (preoccupation).
(6) Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use (continuation despite adverse consequences).
(7) The substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance. (adverse consequences).
As far as my reaction to Doug, it was probably an overreaction, because first I read 1/4 pill, then in two weeks, it was five or six pills. So I was totally startled.
I had also wanted to ask Doug whether he had seen a specialist in resistant depression, whether he had tried an MAOI with a mood stablizer, etc., but it seemed irrelevant at that point, since Doug had already made his decision. (That's why I included your name in this post, Doug).
I make a day to day decision about hydrocodeine, although not an agoninizing one. Basically if I have bad depression pain in my chest, and I want to get something done workwise or exercise-wise, I will take it. I think I must be getting a little bit high, because the treadmill time (45 minutes) flies by, and I have now associated taking it with making the treadmill experience more pleasant (not a good sign).
I am really interested in the form of opiate you take (I can't remember the name and if I go back I'll lose this post). I thought you said it is only available in Europe, but then you said it is often difficult to get at the pharmacy, so I'll a bit confused. (If I went back, perhaps it might be clearer to me). There's a research psychiatrist at Boston General, I have his name and phone number in another file, that I have read specializes in treatment resistant depression and has an interest in opiate response. I plan to call him next week and ask for feedback. I am a short plane ride from Boston, and have a friend there, so possibily if I feel it's worth it, and he's willing, I could possibly meet with him.
Actually at this point my depression is less than it was several months ago (although certainly not gone) and my anxiety and spaciness are up. As I said in a previous post, I have been doing a mega dose of omega fatty acids daily and have also started taking neurotin, which is a retry for me. Unfortunately it is keeping me from falling asleep, but then when I finally fall asleep I sleep incredibly soundly, so I am a bit confused as to what time to take it. Perhaps in the early evening, but I know it has a very very short half life. Will call my pdoc on Monday.
Anyway, Elizabeth, thank you for keeping the discussion open. And Doug, I can only say that no one should waste spending their life depressed if there is an alternative.Shelli
poster:ShelliR
thread:57821
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010411/msgs/59805.html