Posted by JohnL on June 27, 2000, at 4:36:29
In reply to Re: JohnL and Thomas, posted by Andre Allard on June 27, 2000, at 0:52:34
> Whoa there Johny Boy! Don't get the guy so excited about something that might not work.
......Why not? Hope is crucial. I've been in Thomas's shoes way too often. Hope was the only stepping stone to get through the next hour. With nearly all drugs, eventual despair followed. But with the anticipation of yet another choice, hope was restored. You're right, it might not work. But neither might anything else. I think Thomas should get excited. Adrafinil in my experience stands a greater chance of working than nearly anything else I can think of. I don't say this haphazardly. I don't say it lightly. Believe me, I've been around the block more times than I care to remember.
>I am not very familiar with Adrafinil although I do know that it is not yet available in North America.
.....I know. That's why I've provided info on it. You might want to read it. I can provide the package insert also if you are interested. It is very inexpensive. Because of that, the low profit motive does not support the expensive FDA process. We aren't likely to ever see it in US pharmacies. That's too bad. There are some wonderful European medications out there that will never be available in US due to political or economic constraints. Just because something isn't FDA approved doesn't mean it isn't safe or effective. There's a lot more to it than that.
>Adrafinil is not an antidepressant because it generally does not give antidepresant effects.
.....Sorry, this statement is totally false. Where did you get this idea? I know when all we see is what goes on within our own borders it seems like what goes on in the rest of world is somehow devalued. Adrafinil is an antidepressant in countries that are familiar with it.
>If it did, it would be referred to as an antidepressant.
.....I know people who have had their depression respond to Naltrexone, Ritalin, Adderall, Zyprexa, Amisulpride, Deprenyl, Lithium, Lamictal, Neurontin...on and on. None of these are antidepressants either. That doesn't mean they don't have antidepressant qualities. It is not at all uncommon to see various medications used for off-label purposes.
>Any stimulant will cause euphoria or a high.
.....Sorry, this is totally false. Adderall for example sent me into crying fits of despair. The exact opposite of euphoria. If one reviews posts here going back months, one will find dozens of example of other real life people who experienced increased depression instead of euphoria with stimulants.
>Smoke crack, snort eight balls of cocaine and I am sure you will feel a little better.
.....My intention was to stay on topic with valid therapies, not illegal drugs of abuse. I discovered a French website that listed drugs of abuse and dependence. Cocaine was obviously on it. So was amphetamine. It also listed drugs that were not abused and did not have dependence. Adrafinil is in the NON dependent list. Decades ago I was a serious abuser of cocaine for a short while. Believe me, I know addiction. Ritalin to me is a lot like Cocaine. Adrafinil isn't anything similar at all.
>I am not saying that Adrafinil will not work so give it a try if you like.
.....Good idea. :-)
> It is rare that you did not respond at all to any of the ADs you listed above......I never said I didn't respond at all. In reality I responded about 50% to most of the popular antidepressants you can think of. Though that is the most common clinical measurement of 'success', I wasn't exactly prepared to plan a party over it. I'm not satisfied with partial recovery. I always believed total recovery was a real goal. As my psychiatrist recently told me, 80% of patients who try at least two different antidepressants will improve, but very few of them recover to 'normal baseline' as he called it. So my case isn't so rare after all. In my opinion, the extent of partial response is bogus. Especially in this day and age of a vast array of medications available, and expert doctors, there's no excuse for less than 99% recover. I don't buy it.
>What were your dosages - I would like to know.
....Oh man, what a list. Can we put this in another post? I mean, we're talking L O N G. :-) Just for a rough sketch though, my early days included things like 40mg Paxil for a year, 250mg Zoloft for 3 months, 60mg Prozac for 6 months. You get the picture.
Andre, you bring up some good points. I'm glad you did, because they are important points to address and understand. The most important points I would like to stress are: Adrafinil is not amphetamine-like. It is an antidepressant (depends on what country we're talking about), just as many other drugs that are not called antidepressants. It's just as likely, or more likely, to work than anything else we might choose. Its very low cost, easy availability, few side effects, and different chemistry than either amphetamines or more common serotonin antidepressants make it attractive to someone experiencing difficulty with any of these issues.
Hope this helps.
JohnL
poster:JohnL
thread:38333
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000619/msgs/38424.html